BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA COMMISSIONER MICHEL PETER FLORIO and ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE KEVIN DUDNEY, co-presiding ) PUBLIC ) PARTICIPATION ) HEARING Order Instituting Investigation on ) the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Services and Facilities of Southern ) Investigation California Edison Company and San ) 12-10-013 Diego Gas and Electric Company ) Associated with the San Onofre ) Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) Application and 3. ) 13-01-016 ) ) Application ) 13-03-005 And Related Matters. ) ) Application ) 13-03-013 ) ) Application ) 13-03-014 ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT San Diego, California October 1, 2013 Pages 1604 - 1733 Volume - 9 Reported by: Ana M. Gonzalez, CSR No. 11320 Gayle Pichierri, CSR No. 11406 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1605 1 I N D E X 2 3 STATEMENTS 4 MS. ATKINS 1612 MR. MOSIER 1614 5 MR. HOLTZMAN 1615 MR. MOORE 1618 6 MR. THALLER 1620 MS. OREN 1621 7 MS. BUDD 1625 MS. JAHNKOW 1626 8 MS. GILMORE 1629 MS. KOONS 1631 9 MR. OLMOLEOW 1633 MS. PATT 1635 10 MS. GRACIAN 1636 MS. HUNTSMAN 1638 11 MS. BRANCHEAU 1639 MR. RICHARD 1641 12 MS. DON 1642 MR. HOSANG 1645 13 MR. LEICHTLING 1646 MR. HASAPOPOULOS 1649 14 MR. DOSIK 1652 MS. BOURNE 1653 15 MR. KEELER 1654 MR. FOX 1656 16 MS. MARRYWEATHER 1658 MR. MONROE 1660 17 MS. RACE 1661 MS. WILLIAMS 1662 18 MR. GREENE 1663 MR. VALLS 1664 19 MS. VAN THILLO 1667 MR. LUTZ 1668 20 MR. TONEY 1671 MR. MATTES 1673 21 MS. SULLIVAN 1675 MS. BAUTISTA 1682 22 MR. HUGHES 1684 MS. CARREON 1686 23 MR. GRIMAUD 1687 MS. CARREON 1688 24 MR. SORIANO 1688 MS. PAPA 1689 25 MS. VALENZUELA 1690 MS. MANRIQUIZ 1690 26 MR. FERNANDEZ 1692 MS. RILLORTA 1693 27 MR. DELEON 1693 MS. DELEON 1694 28 MR. VASQUEZ 1694 MS. RICO 1695 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1606 1 MS. ESPINOZA 1695 MR. MEDINA 1696 2 MS. PATINO 1697 MS. CERVANTES 1697 3 MS. ESPINOZA 1698 MR. ANTUNES 1699 4 MS. MENDOZA 1700 MS. LAGUNA 1700 5 MR. KELLY 1701 MR. CATALAN 1703 6 MR. LEETONWAY 1704 MR. LUNA 1705 7 MR. QUINTERO 1705 MR. BEEMAN 1707 8 MS. FEATHERS 1709 MS. BORCHMANN 1711 9 MS. KNIGHT 1713 MR. CASADY 1714 10 MR. COOK 1717 MR. AGUILAR 1718 11 MS. ORDINARIO 1719 MS. KAGEY 1720 12 MR. IGMENHURTADO 1722 MS. HARRISON 1722 13 MR. SHACKELFORD 1723 MS. VANCE 1726 14 MS. NORWOOD 1727 MR. JUNGK 1729 15 MS. HORTON 1729 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1607 1 SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 2 OCTOBER 1, 2013 - 2:05 P.M. 3 * * * * * 4 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE DUDNEY: This 5 public participation hearing before the 6 California Public Utilities Commission is in 7 session. 8 I am Administrative Law Judge Kevin 9 Dudney. I will be moderating this hearing. 10 With me is assigned Commissioner Michel 11 Florio. 12 Administrative Law Judge Melanie 13 Darling is not able to attend today's 14 hearing. 15 The California Public Utilities 16 Commission has scheduled this hearing as part 17 of our ongoing investigation into the 18 extended outages and retirement of Units 2 19 and 3 of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating 20 Station, which I will be referring to as 21 SONGS. Generally, the investigation focuses 22 of any warranted refunds or rate reductions 23 due to the nonoperation of SONGS for 24 customers of Southern California Edison and 25 San Diego Gas & Electric utilities. The 26 purpose of this hearing to hear from the 27 public about these issues. We will hold 28 another public participation hearing tonight PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1608 1 on the same topic. 2 In addition to today's hearings, we 3 will hold evidentiary hearings on October 7th 4 to 11th in what we call Phase 2 of this 5 investigation. The focus of those 6 evidentiary hearings will be to consider how 7 much of SCE's and SDG&E's past investments in 8 SONGS should be recovered in rates. We 9 anticipate a proposed decision on that 10 subject in February. 11 We have already held Phase 1 12 evidentiary hearings to consider 13 SONGS-related expenses during calendar year 14 2012 and the cost of replacement power. A 15 proposed decision on Phase 1 issues is 16 expected in the near future. 17 Commissioner Florio? 18 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Yes. I want to 19 thank everyone for coming out today. These 20 can be complicated and sometimes mystifying 21 issues. But I think an informed public is 22 critical to our making the right decisions. 23 Our process is that Judge Dudney and 24 Judge Darling attend all of the hearings and 25 prepare a proposed decision. And then the 26 five commissioners, of which I am one, vote 27 to approve or modify the proposed decision. 28 As Judge Dudney indicated, we've already PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1609 1 completed one phase of this case, and they 2 are working on a proposed decision. We are 3 about to launch into the next phase. 4 It is a very complicated set of 5 issues, literally billions of dollars 6 involved. And it is our responsibility as 7 commissioners to make sure that the rates 8 that are charged to the customers in San 9 Diego are just and reasonable. So looking 10 forward to your comments and ideas about what 11 is just and reasonable in this situation. 12 It is a long proceeding. It has 13 certainly taken longer than any of us would 14 have liked. But we are obligated to look at 15 all the evidence, examine all the costs and 16 come up with a fair and just decision. So 17 your input is very important, and I look 18 forward to hearing your comments. 19 Unfortunately, I won't be able to be 20 here this evening. I was shocked to find out 21 that the last flight out is quite a bit 22 earlier than I thought it would be. I do 23 have to be back in San Francisco for an early 24 meeting tomorrow, but look forward to hear 25 what you have to say this afternoon. 26 There will be a transcript that I 27 and the other four commissioners can read. 28 So even though everyone isn't sitting here PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1610 1 now, we do get a record of everything that is 2 said. 3 Thank you very much and look forward 4 to your comments. 5 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Commissioner 6 Florio. 7 As the Commissioner said, the 8 Commission recognizes the importance of 9 public input, and we welcome your comments on 10 this matter. Representatives of the 11 commission's Public Advisors' office seated 12 just outside the room have signup sheets for 13 anyone that wishes to speak today. The 14 Public Advisor's role is to assist members of 15 the public in understanding how to 16 participate. 17 We will now hear from you beginning 18 with local government representatives. I 19 have a list of individuals signed up to 20 speak. Anyone that would like to make 21 remarks is welcome to sign your name on the 22 sheet with the Public Advisor's 23 representative, and we will give you an 24 opportunity to speak. 25 If you wish, you may also send 26 written comments to 27 Public.Advisor@Cpuc.Ca.Gov or to the mailing 28 address shown on the agenda available with PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1611 1 the Public Advisor representatives. You may 2 also drop off the hard copy of written 3 comments with them today, and they will make 4 sure to get it to myself and the 5 commissioners. If you send written comments, 6 please include a reference to the proceeding 7 number which is I.12-10-013. 8 When I call your name, please 9 approach the podium, identify yourself for 10 the record and please provide the spelling of 11 your name. 12 The court reporters seated here on 13 my left will record each speaker's remarks. 14 The recorded transcript of this hearing will 15 be available for the commissioners to review 16 as they make a decision regarding this 17 investigation. Please speak slowly and 18 clearly into the microphone and towards the 19 reporter and myself so that we can accurately 20 record your remarks. 21 Each individual, including the local 22 government representatives, will have three 23 minutes to speak. Please stay within the 24 three-minute limit so that everyone will have 25 an opportunity to speak. We have many 26 individuals who wish to speak today, and we 27 have only until 5 p.m. to complete this 28 hearing. Therefore, I ask that all speakers PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1612 1 respect the audience and the later speakers 2 by adhering to the three-minute limit. 3 Further, I encourage organized groups to 4 select one or two individuals from the group 5 to represent the views of the group. 6 Now, our first speaker is Toni 7 Atkins, Assemblymember from the 78th 8 District, followed by Donald Mosier. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. ATKINS 10 MS. ATKINS: Thank you so much. Toni 11 Atkins, T-O-N-I last name A-T-K-I-N-S. 12 First off, Commissioner Florio and 13 Judge Dudney, I want to thank you for holding 14 this hearing in San Diego. And for the 15 record, I just want to read into the record 16 the letter that I will hand over to you. 17 In February 2013 I joined with the 18 Division of Ratepayer Advocates in calling 19 for the San Onofre Nuclear Generating 20 Station, or SONGS, to be immediately removed 21 from the rate base for Southern California 22 Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric. SONGS 23 stopped generating electricity in January 24 2012 when Units 2 and 3 went off-line, and in 25 June 2013 the facility shut down. From 26 January 2012 SONGS stopped producing or 27 providing any ongoing benefit to energy 28 customers. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1613 1 Both as a ratepayer and as an 2 elected official representing ratepayers in 3 the 78th Assembly District, I strongly 4 support the September 23rd proposed decisions 5 by Commissioner Florio that would deny 6 reimbursement to Edison and SDG&E for power 7 purchase costs incurred during the 8 nonoperation of San Onofre. 9 I look forward to the result of the 10 ongoing investigation into the unanticipated 11 outage that occurred in January 2012 which 12 includes evaluating whether to remove all 13 costs related to San Onofre from the rates of 14 Edison and SDG&E going forward, and whether 15 to refund San Onofre related costs already 16 collected in rates back to January 1st, 2012. 17 We've been fortunate that the 18 public's strong support for rooftop solar 19 energy efficiency and conservation efforts 20 championed by the PUC, California Energy 21 Commission, local governments and green 22 energy advocates over the years made up for 23 the loss of energy produced by SONGS. 24 Ratepayers should not have to cover the cost 25 for the poor business decision by utilities. 26 I look forward to the PUC's October 27 31st meeting when the proposed decision will 28 be considered by the full Commission. I want PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1614 1 to thank you for treating ratepayers fairly 2 in this important matter. Thank you very 3 much. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Assemblymember 6 Atkins. 7 Next is Donald Mosier, Councilmember 8 of the City of Del Mar, who will be followed 9 by F.K. Holtzman. 10 STATEMENT OF MR. MOSIER 11 MR. MOSIER: Donald Mosier, 12 M-O-S-I-E-R, representing the City of Del 13 Mar. The City of Del Mar has entered a 14 letter into the record. 15 Commissioner Florio, Judge Dudney, I 16 would just like to summarize the points that 17 we made. The letter was signed by our mayor 18 who is the former vice president of SDG&E and 19 is well familiar with rate cases. 20 The bottom line of this letter is 21 that we call upon the Public Utilities 22 Commission to rule that ratepayers not be 23 asked to pay any of the estimated $680 24 million to fix the leaky steam generators in 25 SONGS Reactors 2 and 3, and that SCE and 26 SONGS operators should reimburse the 27 ratepayers for all operational costs when 28 SONGS went off-line in January 2012. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1615 1 We cite the PUC's duty, which you 2 well aware of, code number 451, to ensure 3 that all charges are just and reasonable. 4 The aforementioned steps required to ensure 5 that consumers are protected against unjust 6 and unreasonable rates associated with the 7 early termination or SONGS. 8 As the PUC's own Division of 9 Ratepayer Advocates noted, charging 10 ratepayers expenses for a nonoperational 11 plant is so clearly unreasonable that failure 12 to remove SONGS costs from rates immediately 13 would be a violation of Section 451. 14 Thank you. 15 (Audience clapping) 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Mosier. 17 Next is F.K. Holtzman followed by 18 Hugh Moore. 19 STATEMENT OF MR. HOLTZMAN 20 MR. HOLTZMAN: Thank you for being 21 here, Commissioner Florio. My name is F.K. 22 Holtzman, that is H-O-L-T-Z-M-A-N. I live in 23 Mission Viejo, 18 miles from ground zero. 24 I am not here to talk to you about 25 the inept actions of Southern California 26 Edison. These are well documented in their 27 legion of numbers, so I will not define them 28 for you. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1616 1 I've been following Edison's 2 mismanagement of SONGS for eight years, 3 attending numerous NRC meetings and CPUC 4 meetings meeting the various audits that have 5 taken place. And the record speaks for 6 itself, including the Chilling Effect Letter, 7 something that the NRC very seldom issues. I 8 do not believe the ratepayers should pay any 9 of the costs associated with this fiasco. 10 Let me relay a personal story to you. 11 I was Director of Procurement for 12 Douglas Aircraft when we made some very unmet 13 decisions on how to best source some of our 14 major components of the fuselage for MD-80 15 and MD-90 fuselage. We were in the process 16 of expanding the company, and we had to 17 identify whether we were going to invest that 18 money in California or go elsewhere. I was 19 very intimate in the process of developing 20 the numbers associated with that, and the 21 clear economics that California was not the 22 place to do it. One of the big drivers was 23 utility costs. 24 So we went to Salt Lake City. The 25 State of Utah was very accommodating in what 26 they did for us, including having utility 27 rates at that time there were 60 percent less 28 than Southern California Edison. That drove PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1617 1 some of the decisions. 2 I'm going to take you onto another 3 story. I installed solar in my house about 4 four years ago. At that point in time we 5 were paying about 11.9 cents per 6 kilowatt-hours first tier. Now it is 13.7 7 cents in the first tier. I am an excess 8 provider to the grid. But I'm not going to 9 pay for any of those excessive charges from 10 Edison, because I fully intend to engineer a 11 system to go off-line. I'm going to go off 12 the grid. You are going to force a lot of 13 people to go off the grid, because this 14 decision is yours to make whether you want 15 to, quote, rip the pockets out of the 16 consumer or not. 17 Elon Musk has developed a Tesla 18 automobile, and the chairman of Solar City 19 has developed a battery system that really 20 goes beyond the lithium batteries where you 21 are able to get four to five days of surplus 22 solar in a battery. So you can very easily 23 go off-line. 24 I beg you, don't force the consumer 25 to do that. Thank you. 26 (Audience clapping) 27 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Holtzman. 28 Next is Hugh Moore who will be PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1618 1 followed by Michael Thaller. 2 STATEMENT OF MR. MOORE 3 MR. MOORE: Hi. My name is Hugh Moore, 4 H-U-G-H, M-O-O-R-E. I'm representing the San 5 Diego Gas Green Party. I want to thank the 6 commissioner for his time and for service to 7 our community. 8 I love getting to follow the 9 previous speakers. I don't need to continue 10 talking about how SDG&E and Southern 11 California Edison are. We will move onto 12 something else. 13 Right now Southern California and 14 the whole state pays higher utility rates 15 than most of the country. I think a citizens 16 oversight committee would be a tremendous 17 value to the Commission to help reduce those 18 wastes. And I would love to see that put 19 into effect, to be part of this investigation 20 along with the decommissioning plans for 21 SONGS. 22 But mostly speaking about the 23 current situation, as we have heard from the 24 previous speakers, SDG&E, Southern California 25 Edison have made tremendously huge mistakes 26 in their decision-making process. It is 27 important to our community to have public 28 utilities. As such, we have decided to ask PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1619 1 people to pay money to invest in the building 2 of those things. In so doing, in order to 3 guarantee them protection of their 4 investment, lots of systems are put in place 5 to guarantee that that investment is 6 protected, and so they will get a refund. 7 Because if they don't get a refund, why 8 invest the money in the first place? 9 A tremendous thing is in place 10 called the California Public Utilities 11 Commission that protects that investment by 12 making sure that the ratepayers pay the right 13 amount of money. But, unfortunately, they 14 are not protected from malfeasance and 15 negligence by the corporation executives. 16 When that happens, that is the risk they 17 take. They don't get to receive a benefit 18 from their investment. 19 I believe that they should receive 20 their investment back, absolutely, but 21 nothing beyond that investment. And I hope 22 the California Public Utilities Commission 23 will prepare the ratepayers -- will protect 24 the ratepayers and make sure that the 25 shareholders knows that is the risk they take 26 when they buy utility stocks. 27 Thank you very much. 28 (Audience clapping) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1620 1 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Moore. 2 Next is Michael Thaller who will be 3 followed by Mary Oren. 4 STATEMENT OF MR. THALLER 5 MR. THALLER: Hi, my name is Mike 6 Thaller, that is T-H-A-L-L-E-R. I live 7 Bonita, and I am a ratepayer. Let me tell 8 you a little story. I don't want to go into 9 the numbers, because there are some experts 10 here that will. 11 Many years ago I had a business. I 12 was a filmmaker. I bought an animation 13 system. It was very expensive. The ratio of 14 expense to animation system to me might have 15 approached the SONGS investment for SDG&E and 16 Edison. 17 Anyway, I bid on some projects and 18 it turned out that that animation system 19 ended up costing me a lot more to use than I 20 made money on. I lost a lot of money on it. 21 And, unfortunately, I did not have the option 22 of charging my customers for my loss. Why 23 did I lose money, because I made a mistake. 24 I don't think we, the ratepayers, should pay 25 for the mistake of SDG&E. 26 It is worse than that, because this 27 is an economy killer. Cities and businesses, 28 they also have electric bills. If they have PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1621 1 to pay these electric bills, what options do 2 they have? Are they going to raise taxes or 3 cut back what they do for the citizens? What 4 are businesses going to do with their higher 5 rates? Are they going to have to raise what 6 they charge for products and goods? This is 7 going to be inflationary killer for Southern 8 California. 9 That is really about all I have to 10 say. Except that a friend of mine and I 11 started a petition of ratepayers asking that 12 this not occur. And we got 2100 signatures. 13 I would like to turn this in. Do I turn it 14 in out back? Thank you. 15 (Audience clapping) 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Thaller. I 17 apologize for mispronouncing your name. 18 Next is Mary Oren who will be 19 followed by Margaret Budd. 20 STATEMENT OF MS. OREN 21 MS. OREN: Good afternoon. My name is 22 that is spelled Mary Oren, that is spelled 23 M-A-R-Y, O-R-E-N. I am a resident of 24 Carlsbad. I've lived in San Diego County for 25 30 years. Thank you for the opportunity to 26 talk here today. 27 While I'm looking at the details of 28 what is happening, I think it is also an PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1622 1 important time to look at the big picture. 2 So I put something together here, and we will 3 see how far we go. 4 It is clear that big energy 5 installations come with big problems. San 6 Onofre, the largest nuclear facility in the 7 county, is an example. The biggest natural 8 gas efforts, fracking, is raising water 9 contamination, earthquakes, mounting 10 concerns. And the Tarzan efforts are 11 decimating pristine landscapes and 12 neighborhoods. Gigantic wind farms are 13 interrupting bird migration, and new solar 14 installations are coming online in remote 15 places where those affects are still to be 16 determined. 17 So what do we do when all we know is 18 big? How about considering some things 19 small, and see how we can make things work 20 better in a big way? I'm talking about using 21 the sun put on rooftop settings that can 22 serve us safely right now with the technical 23 help and support of the utility as an 24 important player. Let me clarify. My home 25 is equipped with solar and it has been 26 terrific making and sharing clean renewable 27 energy from our rooftop. And it produces 28 more than I can use in the summer months, and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1623 1 often ends up running my neighbor's air 2 conditioner. 3 This dynamic gives our utility an 4 important break from sending power further 5 down the grid. Solar pools are made used 6 right where it is needed. Because of this, 7 residential solar investments produced are 8 playing a viable role in helping to prevent 9 blackouts at which time SDG&E makes extra 10 profits from households opting to draw lots 11 more power. It is awkward, but it is fair to 12 say our solar investment has served us all 13 well. While providing clean energy and 14 supporting our neighborhoods and to our 15 utility we are serving each other and our 16 planet better than any other energy we have 17 used before. 18 The only thing missing in this 19 difficult scenario is the invitation to do 20 more. Here is my point. We need solar to 21 participate in a bigger way. And for those 22 of us who are willing to install bigger 23 systems to get paid a fair market value, also 24 known as a feed-in tariff currently not 25 recognized by SDG&E. This would inspire and 26 incentivize homeowners and businesses and 27 help us reach our renewable energy goals and 28 reduce our carbon emission. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1624 1 Germany gets over 50 percent of its 2 solar production from its citizen generators. 3 That is 50 percent. Here in San Diego, the 4 residential solar capital of the country, we 5 boast 3 percent. Imagine how solar power can 6 expand an incentive program and invite 7 residents and businessowners to participate 8 like they do in Germany. We have way more 9 sunny days. We have hundreds of thousands of 10 unused rooftops, and we have willing citizens 11 and businesses ready. Let's do this. 12 Battery storage will be higher down 13 the road with neighborhood facilities, and 14 this will be an important priority along with 15 distribution. This is something that SDG&E 16 can focus on while maintaining current 17 services and make a safer, better profit too. 18 Let's get this set up and watch it evolve and 19 have responsible citizens and businessowners 20 and government work together for better 21 energy environment and economic future. 22 It is time to utilize the safe 23 resources available to us here in San Diego, 24 and that is sun. We do not have to go 25 digging for our energy solutions investing 26 billions in technology that disrupts what is 27 underground. Allow more solar investors a 28 chance to participate in a bigger and more PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1625 1 responsible way. It beats unplugging our 2 appliances. We are smarter and better than 3 that. We are willing to participate in a 4 bigger way. Let's get started now. 5 Thank you. 6 (Audience clapping) ] 7 ALJ DUDNEY: Next is Margaret Budd, who 8 will be followed by Carol Jahnkow. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. BUDD: 10 MS. BUDD: Hello. My name is Margaret 11 Budd, M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T, B-U-D-D. 12 I've lived in my home in Pacific 13 Beach for 41 and a half years; that's 14 500 months. And I swear every month -- every 15 month in my SDG&E bill is a request for 16 lower -- higher rates for something. 17 We have paid for the mistakes over 18 and over again of bringing energy from far 19 away with transmission lines that go across 20 the wilderness and our park lands, for fires 21 that SDG&E was not quite insured for, and now 22 nuclear plants that don't give electricity. 23 Then the company threatens to start 24 them up, these faulty dysfunctional units, 25 threatening to start it up as an experiment 26 which might work, but it also might have 27 disastrous effects for the 8 billion people 28 and our environment and our economy. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1626 1 Fukushima has happened. We look at 2 that. The mismanagement produced the highest 3 rates of safety infractions of any nuclear 4 plant in the country. And, yet, the CEO and 5 managers are highly paid and the company is 6 profitable. 7 I am now proudly an official 8 generating facility, which means I have 21 9 panels on my roof. I am a retired person of 10 limited means, but I know this is the way to 11 go. That small fraction of the 2.4 billion 12 that we're looking at, I think, could put 13 solar on every roof in this city. That's 14 where we need to look. 15 Thank you for being in San Diego. 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Budd. 17 Next is Carol Jahnkow, who will be 18 followed by Donna Gilmore. 19 STATEMENT OF MS. JAHNKOW 20 MS. JAHNKOW: Hello. Carol Jahnkow. I 21 live in Encinitas. 22 I want to thank you very much for 23 coming down and holding this meeting. I 24 think it's very important for the public to 25 meet with you personally. 26 I just want to ask a quick question 27 because you said, Mr. Florio, that you 28 wouldn't be here this evening. But the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1627 1 hearing will still go forward and the record 2 and the judge will be here; is that correct? 3 (Nodding.) 4 MS. JAHNKOW: All right. So we'll 5 continue encouraging people to come down. 6 You know, the theme that you are 7 hearing here today I think is very clear. 8 Why should the ratepayers pay for Southern 9 California Edison's mistakes? And I would 10 like to speak very strongly in terms for 11 reimbursement. 12 We are living in very difficult 13 economic times. In San Diego County, for 14 example, it is estimated that 25 percent of 15 children live in homes that are what we would 16 call food -- there is food insecurity. They 17 do not have enough money to feed their 18 children properly by the end of the month. 19 And when I think about these people 20 paying 50 percent more than people in 21 Sacramento and Los Angeles have to pay for 22 their rates, and I think about the choices 23 they have to make, and I think that we want 24 to put our children first, both their health 25 and safety, I'm glad that San Onofre has shut 26 down because they're safer, but they're still 27 hungry. 28 And I think that we need to really PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1628 1 look at these kinds of rates and say what can 2 we do to help this economy right now and to 3 help these families that are so challenged, 4 to help our senior citizens that have the 5 same problem; they are on fixed incomes; they 6 cannot pay these kinds of rates, and they 7 have been paying for energy that they didn't 8 get. 9 And then when we look at the 10 compensation for the CEOs, it's just 11 absolutely scandalous. You know, we have 12 25 percent of the children in our county have 13 food insecurity, and then we're looking at 14 increases in the CEO and the chair of 15 Southern California Edison increasing 15 16 times from 2000 -- the year 2011, from 17 764,000 K to 10.9 million. I mean, this is 18 really very injust (sic). 19 I don't know if it's really your 20 charge to take care all of the injustice in 21 the world, but this is an injustice that you 22 can address. 23 (Audience clapping.) 24 MS. JAHNKOW: And I really ask you, on 25 behalf of the children, of the seniors, of 26 the people who are out of work and yet 27 struggling to pay their gas and electric 28 bill, please do not let us continue paying PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1629 1 for this, and give us a refund. Thank you. 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Jahnkow. 4 Next is Donna Gilmore, who will be 5 followed by Bruce Koons. 6 STATEMENT OF MS. GILMORE 7 MS. GILMORE: Hi. My name is Donna 8 Gilmore. I live just a couple of miles from 9 San Onofre. 10 So I didn't know my retirement was 11 going to have to be learning everything about 12 nuclear plants. And I moved from Sacramento 13 where we had Sacramento Municipal Utility 14 District; ran the air conditioner because 15 it's hot up there. My bill now with San 16 Diego Gas and Electric is over twice as high, 17 and I don't even use my air conditioner. 18 We've got the highest rates in the whole 19 country, except for one place in Alaska. 20 With Los Angeles, LADWP and SMUD, 21 for a thousand kilowatts, you're talking 22 around $130 a month for a thousand kilowatts. 23 For San Diego Gas and Electric and Edison, 24 you're talking over $200 a month. Okay? If 25 this is the difference between private and 26 public utilities commissions, I think maybe 27 we should be looking at finding better 28 companies to manage this. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1630 1 I gave you a handout. On the other 2 side, the NRC just produced an inspection 3 report on San Onofre dated September 20th of 4 2013. And in this report they say Edison 5 knew early in the design about the potential 6 problems with this design and, yet, they 7 moved forward. So, to me, Edison is a 8 hundred percent culpable here. And I don't 9 know how much more information you need. 10 The NRC is your expert on this. 11 They're saying Edison -- Edison has taken our 12 tag line and calling their steam generators 13 "lemons" now. That was ours. We were 14 calling them lemons. Now they're suing 15 Mitsubishi and calling them lemons, okay. 16 Well, this is the time to take a 17 serious look at the mismanagement of that 18 plant. And if anything, they need to be 19 punished. They should lose their license, to 20 tell you the truth. They have no business 21 doing this. 22 And when we get to the point of 23 talking about the nuclear waste, I know 24 that's not this session, but they're using 25 high-burning fuel, which is going to cost the 26 ratepayers even more money. That's a whole 27 'nother discussion. They've got this 28 high-burner fuel they have been using -- they PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1631 1 didn't have to -- that is twice as 2 radioactive. And the NRC doesn't even have a 3 safe way to store it for even 20 years in dry 4 cast. They are finding problems with it. 5 This is a whole 'nother issue that I want to 6 introduce here, because it's critical. 7 We're not talking future 8 generations. We're talking, you know, 9 whoever is going to be living in the next 10 20 years. This is very serious. 11 If you have any questions or you 12 want electronic copies of anything, 13 SanOnofreSafety.org has all the information. 14 It's all documented with government links, 15 scientific links. There's no opinion pieces 16 on there. It's listed in the bottom of the 17 sheet. 18 And anybody who wants a handout, 19 come see me after. Thank you. 20 (Audience clapping.) 21 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Gilmore. 22 If I could just take a moment to 23 ask everyone to please silence their cell 24 phones, that would be great. 25 Next is Bruce Koons, who will be 26 followed by Bert Olmoleow. I'm sorry for 27 mispronouncing that. Go ahead. 28 STATEMENT OF MS. KOONS: PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1632 1 MR. KOONS: Bruce Koons, B-R-U-C-E, 2 K-O-O-N-S. And I'm currently one of the top 3 five candidates for mayor of San Diego. I 4 didn't want to repeat everything Assembly 5 Member Atkins said, but I did want to give a 6 little bit different perspective and talk 7 about things more. 8 I'm a lifetime CPM, Certified 9 Purchasing Manager. I have served in large 10 corporations, except for a public utility. 11 And I find it outrageous that SDG&E wants to 12 still make a profit on this field investment. 13 And I believe that Mitsubishi, SDG&E and 14 Southern California Edison should take the 15 brunt of the -- from their mistake, and they 16 should pay for this, and they shouldn't make 17 a profit. 18 In fact, I don't even really think 19 that they, the rate -- I mean, the investors 20 should be made whole on this. This was all a 21 mistake and a loss. We made a bad deal with 22 the devil, a really bad deal. We need to 23 expedite closing the plant down, and we also 24 need not to have the ratepayers pay for that. 25 So, please, make sure that they 26 take this loss like any real corporation, or 27 even other public utilities I've been 28 involved in would have to, and not make the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1633 1 ratepayers pay for it. Thank you. 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Koons. 4 Next is Bert, who will be followed 5 by Pastor Sergio De La Mora. 6 STATEMENT OF MR. OLMOLEOW 7 MR. OLMOLEOW: Bert Olmoleow, 8 O-L-M-O-L-E-O-W. I don't know if you got 9 that other one. I come down from Orange 10 County, particularly Laguna Woods, a city 11 that has 18,000 people in it, and they're all 12 concerned. It's a 65-and-over community. 13 And I think we're here today for 14 one reason, that's to determine whether or 15 not we are going to reward the greed and 16 incompetence, in my case, of Southern 17 California Edison. When the steam 18 generators, the original steam generators 19 were failing, Southern California Edison was 20 the force behind recommending replacing those 21 generators. I believe SDG&E in fact voted 22 "no." Okay? 23 Then they decided to change the 24 steam generator design. It was their 25 decision, none other, to increase the energy 26 output. They could have just truly replaced 27 the steam generators with a like design that 28 could have lasted another 30 years, which PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1634 1 meant that the plant then would have had 2 60 years service, which is about all you can 3 ever expect of a nuclear plant. And they 4 probably could have done it at a lower cost 5 as well. 6 Now, greed drove them to offer this 7 change. They were responsible for writing 8 the specifications for the steam generator. 9 They chose the manufacturer to build the 10 steam generator. Based upon the published 11 technical papers that I have read, they were 12 directly involved in the faulty design of 13 these steam generators. 14 And again in the papers, if you 15 read the right papers, they failed with 16 improper oversight; they deliberately avoided 17 every licensing hearing where the NRC might 18 have actually caught the design error. They, 19 they, they. Okay? 20 Now, you know, I understand that 21 the utility is entitled to a profit, okay. 22 That's not an argument here. But when they 23 prove to not provide proper due diligence, I 24 believe they have forfeited that right. They 25 have abused their ratepayers. 26 Now, this Commission, I believe it 27 exists to protect the public. Okay. You are 28 the Public Utilities Commission, not the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1635 1 private utility commission. And when such 2 utility refuses to disclose, I believe it's 3 your job to be sure that the utility pays for 4 their failings, not us ratepayers. 5 Thank you. 6 (Audience clapping.) 7 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Olmoleow. 8 Next is Pastor Sergio De La Mora, 9 who will be followed by Marcia Patt. 10 Pastor De La Mora? 11 Okay. Marcia Patt? All right. 12 Miss Patt will be followed by Pat Gracian. 13 STATEMENT OF MS. PATT 14 MS. PATT: Yes. I'm Marcia Patt. I 15 live in Sorrento Valley. My statement is as 16 follows: As the result of the debacle that 17 is the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, 18 a debacle that has come to burden our 19 Southern California communities with the very 20 real threat of the effects of leaking 21 radiation on our health, safety and community 22 mental health for this generation and for 23 many generations to come, now we're expected 24 to pay the penalty for your mismanagement and 25 for poor decision making. 26 We, the public, are now expected to 27 accept additional inflicted pain in the form 28 of increased rates as further punishment for PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1636 1 the decisions made by you, the CPUC. This is 2 not a cost benefit analysis we are willing to 3 accept. We pay the costs and you benefit. 4 We are here to say no to that self-serving 5 cost benefit formula. 6 A better paradigm is you pay and we 7 benefit. No higher rates to the public. 8 Thank you. 9 (Audience clapping.) 10 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Patt. 11 Next is Pat Gracian, followed by 12 Carol Huntsmen. 13 STATEMENT OF MS. GRACIAN 14 MS. GRACIAN: Hi. My name is Pat 15 Gracian. It's G-R-A-C-I-A-N. I am a 16 customer of SDG&E. 17 And, first of all, I want to thank 18 you for bringing this to San Diego, but I 19 would like to ask that the next time you have 20 anything like this, that you hold a press 21 conference a few days before and make all of 22 the local press come and cover it so that the 23 residents know that this is going on. I find 24 it very disturbing that none of our TV news 25 alerted the -- our population here about this 26 meeting; and, therefore, they're not here. 27 And that's a great disservice to the people 28 of San Diego. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1637 1 I want to say that I just echo what 2 everyone has said. When people that are CEOs 3 that are very highly paid, and their stock 4 holders are always allowed to take the 5 benefit of good decisions and are never 6 allowed to take the risk and the losses that 7 they richly deserve to own, we -- all of our 8 citizens are suffering, and we can see that 9 in the huge disparity of incomes that are 10 plaguing our nation. And this type of 11 spreading the risk to the public and giving 12 the private people only the benefits 13 continues to cause this horrible anomaly. 14 So, you know, you do have a great 15 opportunity here to right this wrong. We 16 have been in this -- in -- here in San Diego 17 we have been led on a roller coaster ride, 18 and I mean really excruciating, seeing that 19 our health was put at risk by these reckless 20 decisions of this utility. I, myself, have 21 been very, very worried about the risk to all 22 of us, to our property, to our health, due to 23 these leaks that happened. And for this 24 utility to have done this to the population 25 in general here and now to be expecting to 26 walk away without paying for even the 27 financial cost, I think is just really 28 incredible that they would think they can get PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1638 1 away with it. 2 Please help the population here. 3 Thank you. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Gracian. 6 Next is Carol Huntsman, to be 7 followed by Maris Brancheau. 8 STATEMENT OF MS. HUNTSMAN 9 MS. HUNTSMEN: I'm Carol Huntsman, 10 C-A-R-O-L, H-U-N-T-S-M-A-N. I live in San 11 Diego. I'm a ratepayer. 12 I can't believe that they want to 13 stick us for the mistakes and the danger that 14 they've been putting us through. I was a 15 preschool teacher. It's a good profession, 16 but very poorly paid, and I could never 17 invest in these utility companies. But I 18 understand the shareholders and the 19 management are making a lot of money. And I 20 can't make ends meet as it is now. 21 I was, a long time ago, invested in 22 a company that had a lot of promise. It 23 failed because mostly of poor management. 24 The managers and the stock holders got 25 nothing. So isn't that the way it happens? 26 Isn't that the way the economy works? 27 So just, please, don't let them 28 stick us for all these expenses. And with PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1639 1 all the danger they have put us in, this is 2 very upsetting to me. 3 Thank you. 4 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Huntsman. 5 Next is Mary Brancheau, followed by 6 Michael Richard. 7 STATEMENT OF MS. BRANCHEAU 8 MS. BRANCHEAU: Hi. I'm Maris 9 Brancheau. I'm a resident here in San Diego. 10 First of all, I have great concerns 11 about the environment and the cost of the 12 human population around here and the ocean, 13 as far as where San Onofre is located, but 14 specifically address Phase Two of the SONGS 15 proceedings. I think that you should remove 16 all of the San Onofre assets from the rate 17 base and remove all of the purported repairs 18 that they made to the generators in the years 19 prior to, from the assets for the year 2000 20 and the year 2012. 21 We need to stop collecting now for 22 San Onofre nuclear generation because it's 23 not happening. You need to also stop 24 collecting for the decommission trust fund. 25 I would ask on behalf of the public that you 26 freeze the decommissioning trust fund until 27 Phase Three of this proceeding is concluded. 28 Phase Three is when you are going PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1640 1 to determine who is responsible for the 2 failure, and it should not have been delayed 3 until after Phase One and Phase Two. What I 4 feel like is that the Public Utilities 5 Commission is trying to push under the rug 6 the unreasonable decisions that were made by 7 Southern California Edison and when those 8 decisions were the root of Phase One and 9 Phase Two being needed. If they hadn't made 10 the decisions that led to the failure of the 11 plant, then we would never have to be asked 12 to be paid for replacement power for 2012. 13 So ignoring Phase Three at this point I think 14 is a mistake. 15 I also want to speak on behalf of 16 the people of Borrego Springs; it's one of 17 the hottest and poorest areas in San Diego 18 County. When electric bills go up, people 19 cannot afford to run their air conditioners 20 and people die. That's because it's over 21 110 degrees in Borrego Springs for five 22 months out of the year. 23 The business decision to start 24 burning higher -- burn higher-burning fuel at 25 San Onofre is only something I just learned 26 about, but I think that's unreasonable, given 27 the serious health and safety consequences. 28 I would just like to say when my PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1641 1 god-daughter was seriously ill, there was not 2 a single bed open at Children's Hospital, Los 3 Angeles. And the fact that we have 4 high-burning fuel that's going to be stored 5 on our coastline for decades is unreasonable. 6 Thank you. 7 (Audience clapping.) 8 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Brancheau. 9 Next is Michael Richard, to be 10 followed by Allison Don. 11 STATEMENT OF MR. RICHARD 12 MR. RICHARD: Commissioner Florio, ALJ 13 Dudney, Michael Richard with AARP. I 14 represent about 3.1 million California 15 members all across California. Many of our 16 members are on low fixed incomes. AARP 17 members are in SDG&E's territory and Edison's 18 territory, and they are significantly 19 affected by the San Onofre problems. 20 This electrical -- if you look at 21 the situation, there have been general rate 22 increases for both Edison and SDG&E already. 23 Now if you take a nuclear power plant that is 24 no longer operational, that makes it even 25 harder for many of our members on fixed 26 income. 27 The Commission is now looking at 28 the question of responsibility. We think PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1642 1 it's critically important that the Commission 2 thoroughly investigate this. There are very 3 serious questions. And as Commissioner 4 Florio pointed out, there are billions of 5 dollars at stake. 6 We think the utilities need to be 7 held accountable and that ratepayers should 8 not be unfairly hit by this situation. Just 9 to be clear, AARP supports the proposed 10 decisions around power procurement that would 11 not allow San Diego or Edison to charge 12 consumers for replacement power while the 13 investigation is going on. 14 We appreciate your leadership, 15 Commissioner Florio, and the PUC, on this and 16 will continue to keep our members informed. 17 Thank you very much. 18 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Richard. 19 Next is Allison Don, who will be 20 followed by George Hosang. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. DON 22 MS. DON: Good afternoon. I'm Allison 23 Don. I'm a field representative for State 24 Senator Marty Block. My name is 25 A-L-L-I-S-O-N, D-O-N. And Senator Block's 26 name is M-A-R-T-Y, B-L-O-C-K. 27 I'm here representing Senator who 28 has asked me to read the following statement PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1643 1 on his behalf which we have submitted into 2 the record. 3 Dear Commissioner Florio and 4 members of the California Public Utilities 5 Commission: Thank you for conducting this 6 important hearing today in my community of 7 San Diego. Radioactive leaks in the steam 8 generators at San Onofre resulted in reported 9 costs of more than $768 million. It is 10 unclear how accurate this estimate is and 11 what unknown future costs will occur as the 12 removal, clean up and replacement of this 13 energy source are undertaken. 14 While the easy fix may be to pass 15 these costs on to ratepayers, I strongly urge 16 your opposition to any attempt to convert 17 ratepayers into the ATM for any unreasonable 18 expenses that led to the closure of San 19 Onofre. 20 I also urge you to require that 21 Southern California Edison, SCE, provide 22 documentation of costs and act in a 23 transparent manner before increasing utility 24 rates to cover any portion of the costs 25 related to the failed steam generators. This 26 is especially critical as Southern California 27 Edison's decision to prematurely retire the 28 San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station, SONGS, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1644 1 was a choice made by its internal management, 2 absent any input by state regulatory 3 authorities. 4 These outlays related to the 5 utility's decision to retire the plant should 6 rightly be charged to the plant's operators 7 and their shareholders, not to California 8 ratepayers. 9 In addition, Southern California 10 Edison and San Diego Gas and Electric have 11 already collected an estimated $1.6 billion 12 from California ratepayers to defray the San 13 Onofre-related expenditures before any 14 investigation regarding the appropriateness 15 of this revenue collection has been 16 concluded. 17 It would be highly unjust to make 18 California ratepayers financially liable for 19 both the ongoing costs of keeping the plant 20 on life support while also being charged for 21 replacement power while the plant was idle. 22 I urge the PUC to rule that, one, 23 ratepayers not be charged for any of the 24 estimated $768.5 million spent as part of the 25 steam generator replacement project at SONGS; 26 two, SONGS operators should cease to charge 27 ratepayers for operational costs, capital 28 costs and other expenditures associated with PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1645 1 the non-operational power plant; and, three, 2 ratepayers be reimbursed for revenues 3 collected while SONGS stood idle from 4 January 2012 to the present. 5 The Commission has a duty under 6 Public Utilities Code Section 451 to ensure 7 that all utility charges are just and 8 reasonable. The three steps I list are 9 necessary to ensure that consumers are 10 protected from unjust and unreasonable rates 11 associated with the SONGS termination. 12 As the Public Utilities' own 13 Division of Ratepayer Advocates noted, 14 charging ratepayers for the expenses of a 15 non-operational plant is so clearly 16 unreasonable that failure to eliminate SONGS' 17 costs from rates immediately would result in 18 a violation of Section 451. 19 I respectfully urge your full 20 consideration of the three steps I have just 21 outlined. Thank you. 22 (Audience clapping.) 23 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Don. 24 Next is George Hosang, to be 25 followed by Don Leichtling. 26 STATEMENT OF MR. HOSANG 27 MR. HOSANG: Good afternoon, gentlemen. 28 My name is George Hosang. I live in Serra PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1646 1 Mesa, by here, for nearly 30 years. And I am 2 a ratepayer, of course. 3 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Use the 4 microphone. 5 MR. HOSANG: Okay. Thank you. George 6 Hosang, H-O-S-A-N-G. 7 I would like to hear today, since I 8 believe the answers have a very significant 9 bearing on liability, what must have been 10 very compelling reasons for procuring 11 replacement steam generators from Mitsubishi 12 rather than Combustion Engineering, the 13 manufacturer of the original steam generators 14 that were designed to last 20 years. 15 STATEMENT OF MR. LEICHTLING 16 MR. LEICHTLING: Don Leichtling. I 17 live in North Park. It's L-E-I-C, like 18 Charlie -- I will start over again. 19 Don Leichtling. L-E-I-C, like 20 Charlie, H-T-L-I-N-G. 21 I'm somewhat of a steam generator 22 expert. Compared to most people in the room, 23 I am. I want to tell you that Edison and 24 SDG&E, 20 percent or over, have already won. 25 The CPUC has already given them a billion 26 dollar rate increase. And, unfortunately, 27 they, the utilities, are hopeful that will 28 cover any rebates they have to give back. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1647 1 That was I think a really horrible thing to 2 do. 3 I think I was the first person 4 publicly to tell the CPUC at the Irvine 5 meeting last year or earlier this year -- I 6 don't remember which -- that San Onofre would 7 never be restarted. A lot of people heckled 8 me. I was right. 9 So here's the situation. We have 10 an operator of a nuclear power plant that's 11 untrustworthy. They're untrustworthy because 12 they didn't do the job right. And now we are 13 going to put them in charge of 14 decommissioning that plant, and with access 15 to all of the money in the decommissioning 16 fee. 17 Two, because the decommissioning's 18 coming early, it's about three-quarters of a 19 billion dollars short of what it's going to 20 cost. Ratepayers shouldn't be on the hook 21 for that. 22 Four, when you look back in time, 23 when the CPUC granted the utility an upgrade, 24 what happened was while the NRC didn't care 25 because they are worried about safety, it put 26 stress on all of the components of the 27 reactor and caused them to wear prematurely. 28 The utility wasn't worried because they PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1648 1 didn't pay maintenance costs; those were 2 passed on to the customer. So taking the 3 position that everything go back to January 4 of '12, doesn't half way meet that outlay of 5 cash. 6 Another situation is that the steam 7 generators could have been, with NRC 8 permission, continued to be used, but the 9 utility didn't want to do that because they 10 wouldn't have made as much profit. 11 Also, the CPUC should immediately, 12 as I mentioned before when I spoke to them, 13 put someone in charge of all the money being 14 spent at San Onofre, and not have it be 15 Edison. For example, besides the steam 16 generators which failed in a year or two 17 years, they bought new steam turbines. They 18 are sitting there virtually brand new, with 19 probably another 3- or $400 million worth of 20 components that could be sold immediately. 21 Somebody else who is building a nuclear 22 generating plant could use those things and 23 get them at a really good price. 24 Every day that that plant sits 25 idle, the equipment in that plant loses 26 value. Who's going to pay that value? It 27 should not be the ratepayers. And as a 28 penalty, the CPUC should put "public" back in PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1649 1 its name and demand that the utilities start 2 funding solar, rooftop solar, and double the 3 qualification bar to make it easier for 4 people to qualify. 5 Right now they say, "oh, all these 6 people are qualifying. It will be great." 7 But the overhead on those cost efficiency 8 things is so high, it's outrageous. It 9 should be done on a percentage of installed 10 savings, installed solar. And then if they 11 take 10 percent, that would be a good number. 12 Right now, it's like 50 percent. They get as 13 much money to admin the energy efficiency 14 program as they do to install the energy 15 program. 16 Thank you very much. I appreciate 17 it. 18 (Audience clapping.) ] 19 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Leichtling. 20 Next is Pete Hasapopoulos followed 21 by Paul Dosik. 22 STATEMENT OF MR. HASAPOPOULOS 23 MR. HASAPOPOULOS: Good afternoon. My 24 name is Pete Hasapopoulos, that is spelled 25 H-A-S-A-P-O-P-O-U-L-O-S. I'm representing 26 the Sierra Club, San Diego Chapter, 12,000 27 members here in San Diego and Imperial 28 Counties. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1650 1 We are seeking answers from the 2 Commission on several points. I would like 3 to highlight a few of them. In November 4 2012, the PUC approved a 5 percent rate 5 increase by SoCal Edison or its customers. 6 And San Diego Gas & Electric customers 7 recently saw a bump in their bills, another 8 increase. The PUC was silent on the 9 ratepayer surcharge of more than 50 million 10 per month to keep San Onofre. The surcharge 11 now in its 20th month. 12 Our first question is: Do you 13 intend to allow the subsidy to continue 14 indefinitely even though the plant is now 15 closed? We are asking for an immediate end 16 to the subsidy. When do you intend to make 17 public your analysis regarding the level of 18 subsidy that has been fair and reasonable 19 since January 31st, 2012, and to consider 20 rebates, if appropriate? 21 What these issues are, they dwarfed 22 by the need of responsible management of the 23 decommissioning fund. Edison has pegged the 24 total cost of decommissioning in the 4 25 billion plus range. While fund collections 26 to date, including those by Edison, SDG&E and 27 the City of Riverside total 3.6 billion. 28 There are two grave risks. First, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1651 1 the money currently on hand could be spent 2 ineffectively and failed to achieve crucial 3 cleanup objectives. Next, Edison views the 4 decommissioning fund as a potential revenue 5 stream. Some of this funding might be used 6 to grow the company rather than addressing 7 waste management and site remediation needs. 8 Some questions related to this: What 9 monitoring and accountability mechanisms does 10 the PUC intend to create to assure a prudent 11 and effective use of money in the 12 decommissioning fund in order to prevent 13 unjustified surcharges on ratepayers and/or 14 shortfalls meeting cleanup objectives? 15 We call for the effective oversight 16 by the PUC to assure appropriate use of money 17 in the decommissioning fund. The time has 18 come for a full understanding of the 19 intentions that will be used by the Public 20 Utilities Commission in handling these large 21 public interest concerns. 22 And we would echo our friends at The 23 Utility Reform Network as far as SDG&E is 24 concerned. Utility companies must pay for 25 mistakes out of profits, not rates. 26 Customers should not pay a single penny for 27 costs incurred by SDG&E to own an expensive, 28 inoperable nuclear plant. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1652 1 What SDG&E customers should 2 understand is that since the announcement of 3 the permanent closure of SONGS, SDG&E has 4 decided that that has served up all the 5 fossil fuels, you can eat a buffet. They 6 come back to the PUC asking for the POP for 7 natural gas plant$1.6 billion for ratepayers. 8 They want to build a gas plant on Camp 9 Pendleton now. So add insult to injury, what 10 they want to extract from us related to 11 SONGS, they want to use it to come at us with 12 natural gas power plants that we do not need 13 and throw it on our backs. 14 Thank you for your time. 15 (Audience clapping) 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, 17 Mr. Hasapopoulos. 18 Next is Paul Dosik to be followed by 19 Helen Bourne. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. DOSIK 21 MR. DOSIK: My name is Paul Dosik, 22 spelled D-O-S-I-K. And I have a home in El 23 Cajon. I'm a former retired electrical 24 engineer. 25 What happens is when the power plant 26 is starting to age and in need of 27 replacement, SDG&E and Southern California 28 Edison decided to get a higher -- Mitsubishi, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1653 1 and to get an entirely new design. It was an 2 untested design. And they should have gotten 3 regulatory approval of this new design, but 4 they put it -- they didn't get proper 5 licenses for it. They weren't being very 6 upfront with what they did. 7 Now, the design was a faulty design. 8 I think everybody agrees that the design was 9 faulty. That is why they can't repair it. 10 Now it is being decommissioned, and I believe 11 that all the costs of the decommission should 12 not be borne by any of the ratepayers, 13 because it was the fault of the utilities 14 that selected Mitsubishi, and should hash it 15 out amongst themselves who should pay what. 16 It should not be the ratepayers. Thank you. 17 (Audience clapping) 18 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Dosik. 19 Next is Helen Bourne to be followed 20 by David Keeler. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. BOURNE 22 MS. BOURNE: My name is Helen Bourne, 23 that is H-E-L-E-N, B-O-U-R-N-E. I'm speaking 24 as one ratepayer. 25 And the utility companies, they are 26 the ones who wanted the nuclear plant. They 27 are the ones that went both ways. We should 28 not have to pay for their mistakes. The cost PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1654 1 for San Onofre and all the times it was out 2 of service, that is not our responsibility as 3 ratepayers. 4 So I really feel -- I agree with the 5 lady who spoke I think from Carlsbad. We 6 need to get with a better program here. The 7 sun shines most every day. We need solar 8 panels on every roof. We need to think of 9 people and life and the well being of our 10 planet. And, you know, get with a better -- 11 it is a new age. Let's get rid of it. 12 Thank you. 13 (Audience clapping) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Bourne. 15 Next is David Keeler to be followed 16 by John Fox. 17 STATEMENT OF MR. KEELER 18 MR. KEELER: Good afternoon. Thank you 19 for this opportunity to speak today on the 20 San Onofre replacement steam generation 21 issue. My name is David Keeler. I'm a 22 homeowner in Santee, ratepayer and former 23 electrical engineer for 18 years of some of 24 the largest electrical generation 25 distribution manufacturers in the world. 26 I am opposed to any backcharge to 27 the non-stakeholder consumer ratepayer 28 mismanagement and subsequent financial losses PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1655 1 of the San Onofre defective replacement steam 2 generators. San Diego Gas & Electric or the 3 subsidiary of Sempra Energy and Edison, both 4 for-profit electrical monopolies, are solely 5 responsible for the management failure to 6 ensure replace generators, all the necessary 7 operational standards and safety regulations. 8 Sempra Energy had the oversight, and Edison 9 and the manufacturing and acceptance of the 10 replacement generators and failed in that 11 responsibility. 12 As an investor-owned and for-profit 13 business subject to California Public 14 Utilities Commission, the business decisions 15 of corporation are solely based on 16 profitability and return on investment. As 17 such, the financial rewards or financial 18 losses incurred by such decisions are the 19 result solely to the corporate entity as with 20 any formal for-profit business. 21 SDG&E's ratepayers had no voice or 22 input in the decision regarding the 23 replacement generators and, therefore, must 24 not be subject to the financial burden of the 25 failed corporate management. There are many 26 instances of failure of SDG&E, Sempra Energy, 27 to be a good corporate citizen steward of 28 electrical service in this area. One of the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1656 1 more recent examples of the support system is 2 a decision in 2010 without admitting 3 wrongdoing that resulted in $10 million 4 settlement of claims of electrical price 5 gouging by SDG&E and Sempra. 6 I implore the PUC not to allow the 7 ratepayer citizen to be gorged again in 8 bearing the cost of for-profit corporate 9 mismanagement in the San Onofre debacle. 10 Thank you for your time to speak. 11 (Audience clapping.) 12 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Keeler. 13 Next is John Fox who will be 14 followed by Bambi Marryweather. 15 STATEMENT OF MR. FOX 16 MR. FOX: Hello. My name is John Fox. 17 I'm a consumer adequate with CALPIRG, the 18 California Public Interest Research Group. 19 I'm here on behalf of CALPIRG, of course, and 20 also around 12,000 local members directly 21 affected by rate increases surrounding 22 exclusion of San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant. 23 As you know, the San Onofre Nuclear 24 Power Plant was initially shut down in 25 January 2012 while Edison sought to address 26 the premature wear and radioactive leaks of 27 steam generators installed less than two 28 years earlier. We are now at the point where PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1657 1 they are asking us, the consumers, to cover 2 the cost of their obvious mismanagement to a 3 project that was designed to extend the life 4 of the plant but ultimately led to early 5 closure. California ratepayers played no 6 part in the decision to upgrade San Onofre 7 Nuclear Power Plant, how to deal with unsafe 8 steam generators once cracks were discovered 9 or to kill the plant finally this summer. 10 California ratepayers should bear no 11 financial liability for SONGS operation costs 12 and attempted repairs since SONGS was shut 13 down early in 2012. Those expenses sit 14 squarely with the plant operators and their 15 shareholders. Despite this estimated $1.3 16 billion has already been collected from 17 California ratepayers by Edison and San Diego 18 Gas & Electric. 19 CALPIRG calls on the CPUC to rule 20 that, number one, ratepayers not pay any of 21 the estimated $768 million spent as part of 22 the Steam Generator Replacement Project. 23 Second, that SONGS operators should cease to 24 charge ratepayers for operational costs, 25 capital cost and other revenues associated 26 with nonoperational power plant, and 27 reimburse ratepayers money collected while 28 SONGS stood idle from January 2012 until PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1658 1 present. 2 The PUC has the duty in their Public 3 Utilities Code 451 to ensure all utility 4 charges are just and reasonable. The 5 aforementioned are required to make sure that 6 consumers are protected from unjust and 7 unreasonable rates associated with early 8 termination of the San Onofre Nuclear Power 9 Plant. 10 As the PUC's own Division of 11 Ratepayer Advocates noted, charging 12 ratepayers for expenses of a nonoperational 13 plant is clearly unreasonable, and failure to 14 remove SONGS costs from rates immediately 15 would be a violation of Section 451. 16 Thank you for your time and 17 consideration. 18 (Audience clapping.) 19 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Fox. 20 Next is Bambi Marryweather to be 21 followed by Robert Monroe. 22 STATEMENT OF MS. MARRYWEATHER 23 MS. MARRYWEATHER: My name is Bambi 24 Marryweather, B-A-M-B-I, 25 M-E-R-R-Y-W-E-A-T-H-E-R. 26 So San Diego Gas & Electric and 27 Edison's botched retrofit, they caused a shut 28 down, they misled the nuclear safety PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1659 1 officials about the extent of the design 2 changes so as to avoid regulatory review. 3 And they do not expect their investors to pay 4 for this. 5 I saw the photos in the UT of duct 6 tape and brooms supporting I don't know what 7 in the room of the reactor. Duct tape and 8 brooms do not seem to be what you would 9 expect from a safety standpoint, especially a 10 nuclear plant. 11 San Onofre is just one more example 12 of the shoddy care of infrastructure that San 13 Diego Gas & Electric is becoming known for 14 costs in past lives and property. We are 15 extremely fortunate that we did not have some 16 kind of a horrible disaster from what could 17 have happened in San Onofre. 18 Why should consumers be expected to 19 pay for this? I know that the shareholders 20 are supposed to be able to continue to 21 receive their guaranteed profits, but it 22 seems that when a company makes bad decisions 23 that their investors should be responsible 24 for these decisions. This happens in almost 25 any other business. 26 Last, I am envisioning a world where 27 greed is no longer a constant. 28 (Audience clapping.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1660 1 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, 2 Ms. Marryweather. 3 Next is Robert Monroe to be followed 4 by Kayla Race. 5 STATEMENT OF MR. MONROE 6 MR. MONROE: Thank you for the 7 opportunity to speak. The advantage of going 8 later is that people said what I was going to 9 say and said it quite eloquently. I would 10 like to say I'm a ninth generation 11 Californian. My family landed at Point Loma. 12 I'm appalled at the lack of 13 protection of the citizenry of California by 14 the California Public Utilities Commission. 15 I feel that they have become an advocate for 16 industry much as the old AEC was for nuclear 17 development, and that resulted in a split 18 between the AEC, the Department of Energy 19 because of that. 20 I urge the Commission to view the 21 citizens and the ratepayers and the taxpayers 22 of California as sacrosanct, as their first 23 and most serious protectors. And I ask that 24 you hold Southern California Edison and San 25 Diego Gas & Electric responsible for 26 mismanagement and poor decision making, not 27 us. I can't afford it anymore. After nine 28 generations here, I'm likely to leave if this PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1661 1 kind of behavior continues. 2 Thank you. 3 (Audience clapping.) 4 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Monroe. 5 Next is Kayla Race to be followed by 6 Cathy Williams. 7 STATEMENT OF MS. RACE 8 MS. RACE: I'm Kayla Race. I'm a 9 resident of the city of San Diego. And I 10 work with low-income communities of color on 11 a daily basis, and these communities are most 12 impacted by pollution from a variety of 13 sources. And they are also being hit worse 14 by climate change. 15 So we've been paying for dirty 16 energy for too long from natural gas and 17 nuclear energy, and we don't think that we 18 should continue to pay for dirty energy and 19 for SDG&E's bad mistakes. So really no other 20 industry gets to make profit off of their own 21 mistakes. And so San Diego Gas & Electric 22 and SoCal Edison should not be different. 23 We are here to ask you to deny 24 SDG&E's request and instead prioritize that 25 ratepayer funds be used in loading order, and 26 to really focus on energy efficiency and 27 energy conservation and restore new storage 28 and clean distributed energy in the urban PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1662 1 neighborhoods. I heard someone talking about 2 clean energy, and we would love to see that 3 eventually. Really focus on distributed 4 generation. Thank you. 5 (Audience clapping.) 6 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Race. 7 Next is Cathy Williams who will be 8 followed by John Greene. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. WILLIAMS 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Good afternoon, 11 Commissioner and Judge. My name is Cathy 12 Williams, C-A-T-H-Y, W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S. I'm 13 here as a resident of City Heights. I'm a 14 mom, a grandma and an aunt. 15 I'm here today because I'm worried 16 about impacts of pollution of power plants 17 and climate change in my community. My 18 communities are already suffering from the 19 backs of dirty energy and pollution. Climate 20 change is going to make everything worse. 21 That is why I need the Commission to 22 prioritize clean energy solutions like local 23 solar energy efficiency and not dirty energy. 24 For too long I personally have been 25 paying SDG&E for dirty and dangerous energy. 26 And we are also paying for that cost again 27 with my health and the health of my 28 grandchildren and my nieces and nephews. I PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1663 1 don't want to keep continuing to pay my bills 2 to have people produce dirty energy that 3 hurts our communities. I also don't want to 4 pay for mistakes of SDG&E for nuclear that we 5 are not even using anymore. 6 Commissioner, would you keep paying 7 for something that you are not getting to 8 use? And Judge, would you like to pay for 9 mistakes you had nothing to do with? Just 10 think about that. 11 Instead, if there is indeed a refund 12 available, I would like the energy payments 13 to be going back to the community through 14 utility investments in local clean energy on 15 our rooftops and parking lots. That would be 16 my suggestion. 17 Thank you for taking the time to 18 listen. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Williams. 21 Next is John Greene to be followed 22 by Able Valls. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. GREENE 24 MR. GREENE: My name is John Greene. 25 I'm a ratepayer who lives in Bonita. I'm 26 also a pastor of a church, United Methodist 27 Church, in Southeast San Diego. I want to 28 thank you, first of all, for coming and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1664 1 holding this hearing. 2 My concerns are two-fold. I wish to 3 speak, I wish that you would deny San Diego 4 Gas & Electric Company the rate increase that 5 they are seeking. Because as others have 6 said before me, it was their decision. And 7 so it was their business decision to make, 8 and so we should not be held accountable, or 9 we should not be held at fault because of 10 that. 11 Secondly, I wish you would deny 12 that, because the people I minister to in 13 Southeast San Diego or Sherman Heights, as 14 some people call it, are low income, low 15 middle income, and can least afford to have 16 their rates increased. And so I wish that 17 you would listen to the community folks in 18 terms of their ability or their lack of 19 ability to be able to pay those kinds of rate 20 increases, and deny San Diego Gas & Electric 21 Company their request. 22 (Audience clapping.) 23 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Green. 24 Next is Abel Valls, and Mr. Valls is 25 last on the list. So if anyone else would 26 like to speak, sign up with the Public 27 Advisor. 28 STATEMENT OF MR. VALLS PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1665 1 MR. VALLS: Thank you. I don't know 2 whether it is an honor or not to be the last 3 one, but I'll take the chance. 4 I was going to -- first of all, my 5 name is Abel Valls, last name is V- as 6 Victor, A-L-L-S. And I was not going to 7 address you here today. I decided against 8 that, because -- I decided to be here and 9 talk to you, because I heard that the 10 commissioner will not be here for the second 11 session. 12 I would like to look at it from a 13 different point of view, and that is that 14 when people refer to what happened in the 15 situation, they are using the word "mistake" 16 as selecting the turbines was a mistake. The 17 intention was good, but the results were not. 18 I suggest that it was not a mistake. 19 It was a decision that it was made. That 20 decision was made based on series of factors 21 that we don't have access to. But that 22 decision was a conscious decision made. It 23 was no mistake. The decision was probably 24 made because the utility was going to make 25 more money that way. And it is like saying 26 we are going to make the money, and if we 27 happen to be wrong about this, we are going 28 to get the money anyway. I don't understand. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1666 1 How is that so difficult to reflect? 2 I also believe that the reason that 3 SDG&E and Edison is requesting that money is 4 because it is too easy. They are investing a 5 very small amount of money, and they will get 6 a lot, a huge return of investment. I would 7 do that if I had the same position that they 8 have and no ethics. Unfortunately, I do have 9 ethics. 10 And I'm here to tell you that I 11 don't know who needs to pay for that, but I 12 do know who doesn't, and these are the people 13 that are sitting here today. They are the 14 ratepayers and the taxpayers. 15 I was going to put together my 16 thoughts in a more coherent way. I didn't 17 have a chance, so bear with me. 18 This is not an opportunity for the 19 commissioners to make a decision. This is 20 more involved than that. I will suggest that 21 that is mundane, an obligation, duty, as the 22 gentleman sitting over there said before. 23 So it is interesting to see that 24 when there are losses to be assumed by one 25 entity -- and I'm running out of time. I 26 would just like to leave you with this. Let 27 me repeat myself by saying that we don't 28 have -- and I don't have much time. I need PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1667 1 to respect that. 2 So thank you for your time. 3 (Audience clapping.) 4 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Valls. It 5 looks like we are getting another list of 6 people. 7 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can we 8 speak twice? 9 ALJ DUDNEY: Actually, I would like to 10 stick with three minutes for everyone. 11 Next is Grace Van Thillo. 12 STATEMENT OF MS. VAN THILLO 13 MS. VAN THILLO: Hello. My name is 14 Grace Van Thillo from San Clemente. We have 15 been here before. And we will continue to 16 come, because we ratepayers need to be 17 protected. 18 The NRC's report has shown that 19 Edison did know of the steam generator 20 problems in design, and we ratepayers should 21 not be accountable for that. 22 This is an investor-owned utility, 23 gatekeepers of our transmission grid and 24 generation resources. We are funding lavish 25 compensations, as the Houston Chronicle just 26 reported, and we are trying to take care of 27 our families and our businesses. We 28 ratepayers are captive, and we are depending PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1668 1 on you to do the right thing. Thank you. 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Van Thillo. 4 And next we have Ray Lutz. ] 5 STATEMENT OF MR. LUTZ 6 MR. LUTZ: Thank you. My name is Ray 7 Lutz, L-U-T-Z. I am an electrical engineer. 8 I live in East County, San Diego. 9 Mostly today I want to talk about a 10 the openness of the meetings and the 11 locations of the meetings and the like. One 12 of the problems we have here is capitalism 13 works really good for a lot of things, one of 14 them is if you screw up and you're an 15 independent company, capitalism doesn't care 16 and you get slapped down and you go out of 17 business a lot of times. 18 Well, the CPUC sometimes has a soft 19 heart. It's hard to slap down people that, 20 you know, big companies that you are friends 21 with, et cetera. And in order to make sure 22 that this sort of stuff does happen, we need 23 to be open, we need to be really open with 24 these meetings. 25 Now, in the Sunrise Powerlink 26 meetings we had evidentiary hearings down 27 here in the area where the Sunrise Powerlink 28 was going in. So far, the evidentiary PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1669 1 hearings in this proceedings have all been up 2 in San Francisco where no one is really 3 affected up there. Members of the public 4 can't come to your meetings. This is 5 important that you fix. 6 Also, cameras in the room during 7 Sunrise Powerlink, no problem me bringing a 8 camera in the room and video recording. So 9 far, we've been chased out of the room two or 10 three times and threatened with arrest. Got 11 to be open. There is no reason not to have 12 cameras in the room. I can't see any reason. 13 You say "off the record" and that 14 part of the proceedings is just a bunch of 15 adminis-trivia, it wouldn't matter if it's 16 recorded. There is no sensitivity for, you 17 know, husband-and-wife communications or, you 18 know, witness protection program. This 19 doesn't exist in this type of proceeding. 20 Why is it done? It's because the 21 utility loves it this way because they love 22 to keep the public out of it. Why? Because 23 if the public was here, it would be really 24 much harder for them to get away with what 25 they do, which is raise the rates -- 26 (Audience clapping.) 27 MR. LUTZ: CPUC is supposed to 28 replace that capitalistic marketplace. But PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1670 1 you turned into some powder puffs up there. 2 You're not slapping this company around 3 enough. You need to slap them around a lot 4 harder than you are. It's not happening yet. 5 They've got the system rigged up really well. 6 It's hard to get involved. You can't go to 7 the meetings. You got to go through this 8 excessive thing. You can't even hardly talk 9 here. "Oh, you're a party, so you can't 10 talk." Well, that's not true. I'm a 11 ratepayer, so I get to speak here. 12 The Star Trek spoof, that was a 13 perfect example of why this company is out of 14 control. They're busy making little games up 15 there in a nuclear reactor. 16 Now, there was only 6 16-hour 17 periods in 2012 when San Onofre would have 18 been cost effective. So this entire time 19 we're working with a plant that's not even 20 viable. It shouldn't even be on line ever. 21 It's not cost effective, plus all of the 22 waste. 23 I don't know how to -- open things 24 up. You don't have to make the decisions. 25 Just get them open and it will happen on its 26 own. Trust me. 27 Thanks. 28 (Audience clapping.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1671 1 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Lutz. 2 Now we'll go to Mark Toney. 3 STATEMENT OF MR. TONEY 4 MR. TONEY: Thank you. My name is Mark 5 Toney, T-O-N-E-Y. I'm executive director of 6 TURN, The Utility Reform Network. We are a 7 party to this case. I'll keep my remarks 8 short. 9 The -- our position is that because 10 San Onofre power plant is closed, the rates 11 should not be including the operational 12 costs, the cost of the defective steam tubes, 13 Edison and SDG&E's returns on the plant, and 14 the replacement power that's been needed 15 since the plants went dark. 16 The rising costs are the 17 responsibility of Edison and SDG&E 18 management; they're the ones that should pay. 19 The shareholders should pay. The expenses 20 should come out of profits, not out of rates. 21 Ratepayers should not have to bail 22 out the utility companies when they make 23 profound mistakes. We are not talking about 24 an act of God. We are not talking about an 25 earthquake destroying the plant, okay, or it 26 got struck by lightning. 27 We are talking about management 28 decisions that they made without any input PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1672 1 from the public, and the public should not 2 have to pay. Ratepayers should get refunds 3 for what they have been paying for the last 4 two years, in addition to not paying from 5 this moment on. 6 Thank you. 7 (Audience clapping.) 8 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Toney. 9 Is there anyone else who wishes to 10 speak today? 11 (No response.) 12 ALJ DUDNEY: Okay. Thank you very 13 much. If not, that completes the 14 presentation of speakers. I thank everyone 15 for their comments and reiterate a 16 transcribed record of your comments -- oh. 17 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: I 18 believe people were told this would go until 19 5, is that correct, and then resume. So my 20 question is what about people who may be 21 coming later, you know, between now and 5 and 22 can't stay for the evening session? How will 23 they be able to have any input? 24 People may be coming after work. 25 You know, it's just really when a 26 time is announced, we kind of have to stick 27 to it to make sure anybody who shows up gets 28 to speak. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1673 1 (Audience clapping.) 2 ALJ DUDNEY: So I guess in recognition 3 of that, let's take a break. And if anyone 4 who wants to -- would like to join us back, 5 we'll resume at 4:00 p.m. and see if anyone 6 would like to speak at that time. 7 (Audience clapping.) 8 (Recess taken.) 9 ALJ DUDNEY: Okay. All right. If 10 everyone could take their seats, we'll go 11 ahead and get started. 12 Okay. Everyone, please, sit. We 13 have two speakers. Next will be John Mattes, 14 followed by Martha Sullivan. 15 So, Mr. Mattes? 16 STATEMENT OF MR. MATTES 17 MR. MATTES: My name is John Mattes, 18 M-A-T-T-E-S. And I'm speaking as behalf of 19 the political group, Much Better Choices, but 20 primarily as a ratepayer and a consumer 21 advocate. 22 And I want to thank the Commission 23 for hearing from the public because this is 24 what makes our democracy work, to listen to 25 people, to listen to citizens, take their 26 input and to listen to the elected 27 representatives. 28 It was bold, it was brave, of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1674 1 elected representatives to come in here and 2 speak on behalf of consumers. And I applaud 3 State Senator Marty Block, I applaud Assembly 4 Woman Tony Atkins, for speaking up on behalf 5 of us, the people that don't ordinarily get a 6 voice. But they are speaking on our behalf, 7 and that's the kind of representation we 8 need. 9 As to the rate request and the 10 question of rate refunds, it's rather 11 incredible that in fact a company would turn 12 around to the victims, to the consumers, and 13 say "we built a bad product and it didn't 14 quite work" -- whether it's an Edsel or it's 15 a nuclear power plant -- "but we would like 16 you to pay more for it after you pay for it 17 once." 18 I cannot think back in our recent 19 history that any company has dared do that. 20 But this company, these utilities, have dared 21 do that to us, and that's why the people are 22 speaking out today. And I appreciate the 23 time here for you to hear us. 24 And if we look at what they're 25 really asking -- small children are taught 26 fundamentally: You clean up your own mess. 27 That's all we ask them to do, clean up your 28 own mess. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1675 1 And I would conclude by saying if 2 Edison or SDG&E were here, I would say 3 directly to them: Don't make me pay for your 4 mistakes. 5 Thank you. 6 (Audience clapping.) 7 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Mattes. 8 Next is Martha Sullivan. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. SULLIVAN 10 MS. SULLIVAN: Well, welcome back to 11 San Diego. You know, this is sort of very 12 interesting timing because last Friday, I 13 actually went down to the San Diego office of 14 the California retirement system, and I 15 applied for my pension. I'll be eligible to 16 receive it shortly because of an upcoming 17 birthday. 18 And so most of my 22 years in state 19 service were at the PUC. And I had several 20 people, you know, that I had told that I had 21 gone and filed for my pension. I had several 22 people commend me that you're still serving 23 the people of California. And I and Ray Lutz 24 and others are doing this on a volunteer 25 basis because it's so incredibly difficult 26 for ratepayers to have their voice heard in 27 this process. We've seen it with the NRC and 28 we've seen it with the PUC. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1676 1 And it's sort of poetic justice for 2 me because I spent so much of my career on 3 the agency side, and I hosted many public 4 meetings on draft environmental impact 5 statements and, you know, Commission 6 decisions about proposed projects. And I 7 would like to think I was always pretty 8 open-minded about it. But I also -- I had to 9 balance, you know, the difficulty of hearing 10 all the emotion and all the concerns that 11 people had about their money being spent and 12 about their property being jeopardized and 13 about their families and their loved ones 14 being jeopardized. 15 So now I'm on the advocate side. 16 And, you know, I fully comprehend how 17 difficult it was for those people now, how 18 hard it is to bust through the institutional 19 system that's grown up. And I'm not saying 20 that the people at the Commission who work at 21 the Commission intended to be this way. But 22 the reality is is that over decades this is 23 what has grown up through the thick, thick 24 callus on top of the PUC in terms of letting 25 an average person participate in this process 26 and have their voice heard. 27 And so it's great to have you here 28 today, you know, one day out of a year of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1677 1 doing this investigation. And we're glad 2 that you agreed to stick around until the 3 posted five o'clock, in case somebody does 4 decide to stop by on their way home from 5 work. But just try to remember that. This 6 is the only shot that we here in Southern 7 California have at talking to you guys 8 directly. 9 Thank you. 10 (Audience clapping.) 11 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Sullivan. 12 Is there anyone else who would like 13 to speak today? 14 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can we 15 speak again? 16 ALJ DUDNEY: No. We're limiting 17 everyone to speaking once. 18 Okay. Hearing no other speakers, 19 we will go ahead and adjourn at this time. 20 And if anyone else comes and would like to 21 make comments, the Public Advisor's office 22 will be here. And we will happily accept 23 written comments from anyone who comes in any 24 time today. 25 Okay. Thank you, everyone, again 26 for your participation. This public 27 participation hearing is adjourned. 28 (Audience clapping.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1678 1 (Whereupon, at the hour of 4:11 p.m., a recess was taken until 2 6:30 p.m.) ] 3 * * * * * 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1679 1 EVENING SESSION - 6:30 P.M. 2 * * * * * 3 ALJ DUDNEY: Good evening, welcome. 4 This public participation hearing before the 5 California Public Utilities Commission is in 6 session. 7 I am Administrative Law Judge Kevin 8 Dudney. I will be moderating this hearing. 9 The assigned commissioner, Mike 10 Florio, attended this afternoon's session and 11 regrets he could not stay for tonight's 12 hearing. Administrative Law Judge Melanie 13 Darling is not able to attend today's 14 hearing. 15 The California Public Utilities 16 Commission has scheduled this hearing as part 17 of our ongoing investigation into the 18 extended outages and retirement of Units 2 19 and 3 of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating 20 Station, which I will refer to as SONGS. 21 Generally, the investigation focuses on any 22 warranted refunds or rate reductions due to 23 the nonoperation of SONGS for customers of 24 Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas 25 & Electric. Those are the utilities that own 26 most of SONGS. 27 The purpose of this hearing is to 28 hear from the public about these issues. As PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1680 1 I mentioned earlier, we held another public 2 participation hearing this afternoon on the 3 same topic. 4 In addition to today's hearing, we 5 will hold evidentiary hearings on October 7th 6 through 11th in what we call Phase 2 of this 7 investigation. The focus of those 8 evidentiary hearings is to consider how much 9 of SCE's and SDG&E's past investments in 10 SONGS should be recovered in rates. To use 11 the regulatory term, these hearings will 12 consider what assets should be removed from 13 rate base. 14 We anticipate a proposed decision on 15 that subject in February. We have already 16 held Phase 1 evidentiary hearings to consider 17 SONGS-related expenses in calendar year 2012 18 and the costs of replacement power. A 19 proposed decision on Phase 1 issues is 20 expected in the near future. 21 The Commission recognizes the 22 importance of public input and welcomes your 23 comments on this matter. Representatives of 24 the Commission's Public Advisor's office 25 seated just outside the room have sign-in 26 sheets for anyone who wishes to speak. The 27 Public Advisor's role is to assist members of 28 the public in understanding how to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1681 1 participate in Commission proceedings. 2 We will now hear from you beginning 3 with local government representatives. I 4 have a list of individuals signed up to 5 speak. Anyone who would like to make remarks 6 is welcome to sign their name on the sheet 7 with the Public Advisor's representative, and 8 we will give you the opportunity to speak. 9 If you wish, you may also send your written 10 comments to Public.Advisor@Cpuc.Ca.Gov, or to 11 the mailing address shown on the agenda 12 available at the Public Advisor's table 13 outside. 14 You can also bring your written 15 comments here to the gentleman on my right 16 who will take them. If you do send written 17 comments, please include a reference to the 18 proceeding number which is I.12-10-013. 19 When I call your name, please 20 approach the podium, identify yourself for 21 the record and please provide the spelling of 22 your name. 23 The court reporters seated on my 24 left will record each speaker's remarks. The 25 recorded transcript of this hearing will be 26 available for the commissioners to review as 27 they make their decision regarding this 28 investigation. Please speak slowly and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1682 1 clearly into the microphone for the reporter 2 and myself so that we can accurately record 3 your remarks. 4 Each individual will have three 5 minutes to speak. Please stay within the 6 three-minute limits so everyone will have an 7 opportunity to speak. We have many 8 individuals who wish to speak. We only have 9 until 9:30 p.m. to complete this hearing. 10 Therefore, I ask that all speakers respect 11 the audience and later speakers by adhering 12 to the three-minute limit. Further, I 13 encourage organized groups to select one or 14 two individuals to represent the group. 15 Now, our first speaker is Faith 16 Bautista who will be followed by Anthony 17 Hughes. 18 STATEMENT OF MS. BAUTISTA 19 MS. BAUTISTA: Good evening. Faith 20 Bautista, F-a-i-t-h, B-a-u-t-i-s-t-a. We are 21 asking the CPUC to be fair to everyone that 22 is here and all their families and friends. 23 SDG&E for some reason forgot who 24 pays them, how they get paid, and forget why 25 they are here in San Diego. SDG&E needs to 26 recognize the value of the communities. They 27 have to create plans, programs how you can 28 replace that 20 percent of energy that they PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1683 1 are losing. That alone, charging all of us, 2 that we already had a rate increase a while 3 ago, another rate increase and maybe next 4 year another rate increase. Why do you keep 5 increasing and then your programs are 6 decreasing? 7 SDG&E needs to emulate other utility 8 companies where they can put a program 9 together for each of these people who will 10 know how to save energy. It is about energy 11 efficiency. If they do not come out of their 12 building and teach every single one of them 13 how to save energy, we will never replace 14 that 20 percent. That alone will increase 15 more of the usage of energy. 16 These are the students, these are 17 the young people, these are the people that 18 are high in technology. SDG&E should really 19 come out and be part of the community. Thank 20 you very much. 21 I would like to the ask all the 22 homeowners that I know they do not want to 23 speak, people don't want to speak because 24 they are nervous. They don't know what is 25 going to happen to them. So can you, please, 26 everyone stand. 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 MR. BAUTISTA: This one too, you guys PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1684 1 stand up. You are part of it. 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 MS. BAUTISTA: So this is the power of 4 the community. Consider the voice, consider 5 every single one of them that what they will 6 be talking about and pay attention. Don't 7 make this a hearing just a hearing. Let them 8 hear it and do something about it. 9 Thank you. 10 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Bautista. 11 Next is Anthony Hughes who will be 12 followed by Jordan Bell. 13 STATEMENT OF MR. HUGHES 14 MR. HUGHES: Good evening. Thank you 15 for the opportunity. Anthony Hughes, 16 A-N-T-H-O-N-Y, H-U-G-H-E-S. I'm the Pastor 17 of Memorial Church in San Diego and also the 18 Chair of the Social Action Commission of the 19 San Diego Interdenominational Ministerial 20 Alliance. 21 Many of the people that I represent 22 are elderly and on fixed incomes. Yearly 23 they get Social Security income, they might 24 get a 3 or 4 percent increase in that. And 25 when one of the basic necessities of life, 26 your utilities, your electricity goes up at 27 the kind of rate that SDG&E is doing is 28 extremely difficult for a person such as PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1685 1 those who are always struggling with 2 healthcare expenses, always struggling even 3 to make their grocery bills. To add this 4 kind of increase is devastating to them on 5 top of being just blatantly unfair. 6 We understand that it is 7 stockholders who are not being asked to share 8 in the expense of what is happening with San 9 Onofre as opposed to us, the ratepayers who 10 are being asked to take that increase. 11 Stockholders and persons who made an 12 investment made a gamble aiming to make more 13 money for themselves. But if this increase 14 goes through, it is not a gamble because they 15 have no possible way. They could lose. 16 When I was in seminary trying to get 17 my ministerial credentials I decided that I 18 would start a little business for myself 19 repairing computers. I had a certification 20 from IBM, I was certified on the original IBM 21 PC. And young people don't remember because 22 that has a while ago. Anyway, I started to 23 try to run that business. I made some 24 investments and bought some parts, some tools 25 and equipment. But I found it extremely 26 difficult to find customers. And guess what? 27 I lost. I made an investment. It was a 28 gamble. It didn't work out. And I had to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1686 1 pay the price. 2 If I buy stocks and the stocks that 3 I buy do not go up, if they go down I lose. 4 That is the way it is supposed to be. I 5 understand that going in. 6 (Audience clapping.) 7 MR. HUGHES: So for the person who 8 purchases these utilities cannot lose, I 9 guess we should all be given a share, because 10 that is the only way to be fair. 11 So we ask you to consider ruling 12 against SDG&E in this. I thank you for your 13 time. 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Hughes. 15 Next is Jordan Bell who will be 16 followed by Jackie Carreon. 17 STATEMENT OF MS. CARREON 18 MISS CARREON: Hi, my name is Melinda 19 Carreon, C-a-r-r-e-o-n. 20 I want to say something. I like 21 your company, but I want my mom to save her 22 money. 23 (Audience clapping.) 24 MS. CARREON: I'm her mother. I'm 25 Jackie Carreon, J-a-c-k-i-e, C-a-r-r-e-o-n. 26 She is right, we do love your 27 company. I don't mind paying the rate 28 increase every once and a while because the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1687 1 service at SDG&E is impeccable. If I call 2 and I need an extension, I need a payment 3 plan, they are always willing to work. But I 4 think the rate increase because of the 5 mistake that SDG&E made, it shouldn't be put 6 on us. 7 I think that we are unfortunate to 8 be recipient of the CARE Program. But at the 9 same time, there is a reason I'm on the CARE 10 Program, because I can't afford the full rate 11 that it is now let alone increase more. So I 12 think for the sake of everybody we should not 13 be paying for the mistake that SDG&E made, 14 and I disagree with what is going on. Thank 15 you. 16 (Audience clapping.) 17 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you. 18 Next we will go to Michael Grimaud 19 followed by Bella Carreon. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. GRIMAUD 21 MR. GRIMAUD: My name is Michael 22 Grimaud. I work with Faith Bautista as an 23 employee. Michael, M-I-C-H-A-E-L, 24 G-R-I-M-A-U-D. 25 I'm here to say if you break it, you 26 should fix it, not us. 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Grimaud. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1688 1 Next is Bella Carreon followed by 2 Chon Soriano. 3 STATEMENT OF MS. CARREON 4 MS. CARREON: My name Bella Carreon. 5 I am married to a military guy who 6 is retired in Navy, still working for the 7 Navy because of our mortgage. Right now he 8 is even on furlough. He doesn't work. Not 9 his fault. Just because of this, we are off 10 a thousand dollars a month. We could hardly 11 pay for our house. Maybe give us the higher 12 rate, we might not be able to pay for 13 electricity. 14 I'm speaking not just for me, I 15 think for military family. I don't think you 16 should increase, give us higher pay. Not 17 like increase, because it is their fault. 18 Thank you very much. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Carreon. 21 Next is Chon Soriano who will be 22 followed by Zemaira Papa. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. SORIANO 24 MR. SORIANO: My name is Chon Soriano, 25 C-H-O-N, S-O-R-I-A-N-O. 26 I'm here today because I want to 27 make a difference, just like these other 28 people behind me. If I make 3.4 million a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1689 1 year, I wouldn't care about the utilities. 2 But I don't, I'm not a CEO. I'm just a 3 resident like these people with a mortgage, 4 with health insurance, with water utility 5 bills, home maintenance. If they increase 6 the utility bills even more, I don't know 7 what I'm going to do. Anyway... 8 (Audience clapping.) 9 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Soriano. 10 Next is Zenaida Papa followed by 11 Louisa Surreal. 12 STATEMENT OF MS. PAPA 13 MS. PAPA: Good evening. I'm Zenaida 14 Papa, Z-E-N-A-I-D-A, P-A-P-A. I'm a senior. 15 I'm here to say no to pay the high 16 gas and electric. I cannot afford it. So 17 I'm here to say a big no, please. That is 18 all. Thank you so much. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Papa. 21 Next is Louisa Surreal followed by 22 Noli Custodian. Louisa Surreal? 23 (No response.) 24 ALJ DUDNEY: Next is Noli Custodian? 25 (No response.) 26 ALJ DUDNEY: Moving on, Marisa 27 Valenzuela. Ms. Valenzuela will be followed 28 by Consuelo Manriquiz. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1690 1 STATEMENT OF MS. VALENZUELA 2 MS. VALENZUELA: Good evening. My name 3 is Marisa Valenzuela, M-A-R-I-S-A, 4 V-A-L-E-N-Z-U-E-L-A. I live in Chula Vista. 5 And I'm here to ask the Commission 6 not allow SDG&E to increase the price of 7 electricity. Because with this economy is 8 very hard to just to buy gas, food, very 9 expensive. So it would be very hard for me 10 to pay another increase. My income is very 11 low. I'm hard to survive like all our 12 families right now. Thank you. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Valenzuela. 15 Next is Consuelo Manriquiz followed 16 by Isagani Isabello. ] 17 STATEMENT OF MS. MANRIQUIZ 18 MS. MANRIQUIZ: My name is Consuelo 19 M-A-N-R-I-Q-U-I-Z. I stand before you in the 20 spirit of King-Chavez to talk about this 21 issue and how it affects 570 of our students, 22 more than 57 employees in our school. With 23 an increase of SDG&E rates, that would be a 24 terrible situation -- would put our teachers 25 and our students in a terrible situation. 26 We are a school with a hundred 27 percent of students that are qualified for 28 free introduce lunch, and every day is a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1691 1 struggle for them and their families. So we 2 stand before you against it. 3 So one of the things that we did 4 is -- always to learn from what goes on and 5 how we can become active like King and 6 Chavez. And we had a survey, 350 students. 7 And I'll give you the first one. 8 San Diego Gas and Electric recently 9 received a 1.4 billion rate increase that you 10 helped pay for. They are now seeking another 11 800 million for mistakes they made in 12 operating their nuclear plant at San Onofre. 13 Who should pay for these mistakes? 14 338 students out of 350 said SDG&E 15 and top executives, not the people of San 16 Diego, not the families of King-Chavez 17 Community High School, and not our teachers. 18 The other one is that we -- the CEO 19 pay, that what he gets for one day does not 20 even compare to what our parents make in the 21 whole year, or even the entire teaching staff 22 at King-Chavez. So again we asked our 23 students: Should there be a limit for CEOs' 24 pays, especially for SDG&E? 25 247 said, yeah, there should be. 26 We also asked the students if CPUC 27 Commissioners should regulate the increase of 28 the pay of top executives at Edison and not PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1692 1 have as high increase. 2 And, again, 259 of 350 kids said 3 yes. 4 So this are your future, kids. 5 This are -- the parents are the ones who are 6 paying for SDG&E bills and they're 7 struggling. And you can -- you're all 8 invited to come to our school and talk to our 9 students and see what they do every day just 10 to make it to our school. 11 So I thank you for this opportunity 12 to present. Gracias. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Manriquiz. 15 And thank you to the students of King-Chavez 16 High School. 17 Next is Isagani Isabello. Isagani 18 Isabello? 19 Okay. 20 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: She's in 21 the bathroom. 22 ALJ DUDNEY: Oh, in the bathroom? 23 Okay. We'll come back to her after the next 24 speaker. 25 Rofino Fernandez? 26 STATEMENT OF MR. FERNANDEZ 27 MR. FERNANDEZ: Good evening. My name 28 is Rofino Fernandez. I live in 3140 Milton PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1693 1 (ph) Drive. I am US military retired with 2 limited income. So I ask the SDG&E to either 3 maintain or reduce the cost of electricity, 4 as the economy is still struggling for on the 5 recovery. 6 Thank you. 7 ALJ DUDNEY: Isagani Isabello? 8 All right. Amelita Fernandez? 9 Amelita Fernandez? 10 All right. Laticia Rillorta? 11 STATEMENT OF MS. RILLORTA 12 MS. RILLORTA: Good evening. My name 13 is Laticia Rillorta, R-I-L-L-O-R-T-A. 14 I am a working mother with two 15 daughters, and I would like to request of the 16 SD&G (SIC) to reduce our electricity bills 17 because it's really hard for us to maintain 18 our utilities. 19 And I thank you so much for hearing 20 our requests of dealing these matters. Thank 21 you. 22 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Rillorta. 23 Rosalind Deleon? 24 STATEMENT OF MR. DELEON: 25 MR. DELEON: Good evening. Good 26 evening, Commissioner and everybody. My name 27 is Eugene C. Deleon. "Eugene" I spell 28 E-U-G-E-N-E, and Deleon, D-E-L-E-O-N. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1694 1 My message is and request for you, 2 sir, is simple. Don't increase my utility 3 bills. Thank you. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 STATEMENT OF MS. DELEON 6 MS. DELEON: I am Rosalind Deleon, 7 R-O-S-A-L-I-N-D, capital D-E-L-E-O-N. 8 I am also retired, and my husband 9 is a retired Navy. But our utilities are 10 really going up high. So please help us to 11 decrease all the utility bills. 12 Thank you so much. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, both, for your 15 comments. 16 Okay. Isagani Isabello? 17 Miguel Vasquez? 18 (Audience clapping.) 19 STATEMENT OF MR. VASQUEZ 20 MR. VASQUEZ: Good evening, everybody. 21 My name is Miguel Vasquez. That's 22 M-I-G-U-E-L, V-A-S-Q-U-E-Z. And I'm here 23 representing King-Chavez High School. 24 I'm a senior. And I just want to 25 say I disagree with SDG&E's decision to 26 increase the utility bill. Being a senior, 27 it's going to be a lot of costs to apply to 28 colleges and get the applications and to save PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1695 1 money for textbooks and classes, once we do 2 attend college. And this bill increase 3 wouldn't help in any way. And I speak for 4 the rest of my seniors in the class with me. 5 So I disagree with SDG&E's 6 decision. 7 Thank you. 8 (Audience clapping.) 9 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Vazquez and 10 to your classmates. 11 Yuritzy Rico. 12 STATEMENT OF MS. RICO 13 MS. RICO: Good afternoon. My name is 14 Yuritzy Rico, Y-U-R-I-T-Z-Y, R-I-C-O. 15 My concern is that my parents will 16 have to pay higher utilities and it affects 17 me and everyone in my community. My friends 18 work overtime making minimum wage to be able 19 to pay. I disagree with you guys increasing 20 the utility rates. 21 Thank you. 22 (Audience clapping.) 23 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Rico. 24 Next is Anahi Espinoza, who will be 25 followed by Oscar Medina. 26 And I do apologize for names that I 27 mispronounce. I know I will mess up a few. 28 STATEMENT OF MS. ESPINOZA PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1696 1 MS. ESPINOZA: Good evening. My name 2 is Anahi Espinoza, and I go to King-Chavez 3 High School. 4 I disagree with the decision that 5 has been made by SDG&E to be -- (inaudible) 6 that most of our families work full-time and 7 get paid minimum wage and can barely afford 8 to sustain us. And now they want us to pay 9 for their mistakes. 10 So now the only questions that 11 we're asking is: Where is the CEO? 12 Thank you. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Espinoza. 15 Oscar Medina, who will be followed 16 by Rebecca Patino. 17 STATEMENT OF MR. MEDINA 18 MR. MEDINA: My name is Oscar Medina, 19 O-S-C-A-R, M-E-D-I-N-A. 20 And this increase just doesn't make 21 sense because if it's their fault, it's 22 them -- or they should be the people to pay 23 it. My mother works two jobs, nearly 24 80 hours a week. Yet, she still stresses 25 about paying bills. And she usually has to 26 get payday loans and money loans just to pay 27 the rent because we live in a three-bedroom, 28 and it's insane. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1697 1 And then also adding this increase, 2 especially one that's over something that 3 they did themselves, that's insane. Why 4 would they? 5 I just -- I'm with King-Chavez 6 High. I'm a junior. And I agree with most 7 of the statements that they have said that 8 this increase is unfair. 9 Have a good day. 10 (Audience clapping.) 11 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Medina. 12 Next is Rebecca Patino, to be 13 followed by Melissa Cervantes. 14 STATEMENT OF MS. PATINO 15 MS. PATINO: Good evening. My name is 16 Rebeca Patino. Rebeca, R-e-b-e-c-a, Patino, 17 P-A-T-I-N-O. 18 I am a senior at King-Chavez 19 School. I believe we should not pay SDG&E's 20 mistakes. The utilities in San Diego are 21 high, and we cannot afford an increase in our 22 electricity bill for a mistake that we did 23 not commit. 24 Thank you. 25 ALJ DUDNEY: Melissa Cervantes, 26 followed by Admin Espinoza. 27 STATEMENT OF MS. CERVANTES 28 MS. ESPINOZA: Good evening, members of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1698 1 California Public Utilities Commission. My 2 name is Melissa Cervantes, M-E-L-I-S-S-A, 3 C-E-R-V-A-N-T-A-S. 4 I'm here representing King-Chavez 5 High School, Logan and Sherman Heights 6 communities. I am deeply offended that SDG&E 7 is making our families pay millions for a 8 mistake SDG&E made, with their CEOs making 9 3.4 million. 10 5 percent of our families in the 11 areas 92103 cannot pay their water. I don't 12 think SDG&E CEOs knows how it feels to not be 13 able to flush a toilet for a week. 14 Thank you. 15 (Audience clapping.) 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Cervantes. 17 Admin Espinoza, followed by 18 Gerrardo Antunes. 19 STATEMENT OF MS. ESPINOZA 20 MR. ESPINOZA: Good afternoon, 21 everyone. My name is Admin Espinoza, 22 A-D-M-I-N, E-S-P-I-N-O-Z-A. 23 I am a senior at King-Chavez High 24 School. And I do not agree with this 25 proposal. As an only child with a single 26 mother and currently applying for college, I 27 believe it is unfair to ask millions of 28 customers to pay hundreds of millions of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1699 1 dollars in higher bills just to pay for the 2 mistake of the company. 3 Next year, I am applying for or I 4 am going to college. I will have to pay 5 tuition, books, classes and other expenses. 6 My mother does not have a million dollars to 7 be spending every month or $300 to spend a 8 year -- well, no one in the city does, that 9 is, except for the executives. 10 I stand my case that we should not 11 be forced to pay for something we do not 12 control. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Espinoza. 15 Gerrardo Antunes, followed by Maria 16 Mendoza. 17 STATEMENT OF MR. ANTUNES 18 MR. ANTUNES: Good afternoon. My name 19 is Gerrardo Antunes, and I go to King-Chavez 20 High School. 21 I am a senior. And I understand 22 life is sometimes unfair. This occasion 23 SDG&E has done something kind of unhuman 24 (sic) to all of us by trying to make us pay 25 for their mistakes. And their consequences 26 must be paid out of their own pockets. I 27 don't understand how come we have to suffer 28 the consequences. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1700 1 But one thing that I know for sure 2 is I believe in America sort of justice, and 3 everything can be solved if you know how to. 4 And you may do the right decision. 5 (Audience clapping.) 6 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Antunes. ] 7 Next Maria Mendoza, followed by 8 Evelyn Laguna. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. MENDOZA 10 MS. MENDOZA: Good afternoon. My name 11 is Maria Mendoza, M-A-R-I-A, M-E-N-D-O-Z-A. 12 I'm a senior at King-Chavez High School. 13 Every senior in the country deserves 14 the right to go to prom, wear a cap and gown, 15 apply for college. Why are you ruining my 16 rights, making my parents pay the utility 17 bills for the mistakes they made? Thank you. 18 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Mendoza. 19 Next is Evelyn Laguna followed by 20 Don Kelly. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. LAGUNA 22 MS. LAGUNA: Hello, good afternoon. My 23 name is Evelyn Laguna, E-V-E-L-Y-N, 24 L-A-G-U-N-A. 25 I'm representing King-Chavez High 26 School. I am really concerned, and I do not 27 agree with SDG&E utility increase. My 28 community should not pay for SDG&E's mistakes PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1701 1 when families are more concerned about 2 getting children an education. How can they 3 focus on our education when they are working 4 hard to try to pay for the mistakes SDG&E 5 made? 6 (Audience clapping.) 7 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Laguna. 8 Don Kelly followed by Fernando 9 Catalan. 10 STATEMENT OF MR. KELLY 11 MR. KELLY: Good evening. I'm Don 12 Kelly. 13 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: We can't 14 hear you. 15 MR. KELLY: Can you hear me now? 16 Good evening. I'm Don Kelly, 17 Executive Director of The Utilities Consumers 18 Action Network, UCAN. And I am here to say 19 that I think everybody here is right. They 20 are all giving you a story about how 21 incredibly hard it is to pay utility bills 22 put forward by SDG&E in this community. 23 And what people do not understand is 24 that you, the Commission, are currently 25 deciding whether or not the rates should be 26 reduced by not charging us what you are 27 already, what SDG&E is already allowed to 28 charge us in rates, whether or now we should PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1702 1 get a refund of money. Because SDG&E and 2 SoCal Edison, the operators of San Onofre, 3 are charging us money right now for a plant 4 that has been broken since 2012. They are 5 also charging us money right now for a 6 replacement steam generators that were 7 purchased several years ago, and this is what 8 keeps the plant open for much longer than 9 2012. We are being charged money in addition 10 to the replacement steam generators and for 11 the plant, also for replacement power that 12 that plant is not producing. 13 San Diego Gas & Electric has 14 recently been granted a general rate increase 15 from their GRC by the Commission decision 16 issued in May of this year. And that has 17 raised rates in this community substantially. 18 My organization gets calls every day from 19 people just like these students' parents 20 saying we are having an incredibly hard time 21 paying our utility bills because the rates 22 are so high, and now they are going up even 23 more. 24 The problem from my organization's 25 perspective is why are we still being charged 26 right now for San Onofre when it is not 27 running? 28 (Audience clapping.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1703 1 MR. KELLY: The Commission has the 2 power to approve whether or not to take San 3 Onofre out of rate base right now in this 4 phase. You can rearrange the scoping memo. 5 You can take that issue right now and decide 6 whether or not we should take San Onofre out 7 of rates now, and then decide whether or not 8 money should then be recovered, if any. 9 Right now you are deciding an issue 10 whether or not to refund money that is being 11 collected now and, if so, how much? Because 12 the assumption is that the plant is used and 13 useful. We all know that it is not true. It 14 is not being used and it certainly isn't 15 useful. 16 So I ask the Commission to grant a 17 general rate decrease, so to speak, by 18 refunding the money that we are currently 19 paying. We shouldn't be paying for a broken 20 plant. Thank you very much. 21 (Audience clapping.) 22 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Kelly. 23 Next is Fernando Catalan followed by 24 Guillermo Leetonway. 25 STATEMENT OF MR. CATALAN 26 MR. CATALAN: Hi. My name is Fernando 27 Catalan. That is spelled F-E-R-N-A-N-D-O, 28 C-A-T-A-L-A-N. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1704 1 I live in a house that has a busted 2 stove, where I can't use the oven, a 3 microwave that is close to breaking down, 4 sinks that are constantly breaking down, and 5 a house that has 11 people in it. I hesitate 6 to turn on my pilot light when it is hot, 7 because I worry if may parents will be able 8 to afford it. This winter I don't want to 9 have to worry about putting the heat on or 10 staying in the cold at night. 11 I'm here to represent King-Chavez 12 and the Sherman and Logan community, because 13 we are all struggling to make ends meet. In 14 a community where sometimes you worry if you 15 just heard a gunshot or if it was a tire 16 popping, you don't want the biggest of your 17 worries to be if you can pay for your 18 electric bill. Thank you. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Catalan. 21 Guillermo Leetonway followed by 22 Louis Luna. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. LEETONWAY 24 MR. LEETONWAY: Good evening. My name 25 is Guillermo Leetonway, G-U-I-L-L-E-R-M-O 26 L-E-E-T-O-N-W-A-Y. 27 I agree with my fellow classmates of 28 SDG&E's decision for raising the utility PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1705 1 bill. My mom is the only one working. My 2 dad is unemployed. We have to pay water, all 3 these utilities and stuff, we don't have 4 anything for food. And, yeah, I disagree 5 with SDG&E's decision raising the utility 6 bill. 7 (Audience clapping.) 8 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Leetonway. 9 Next is Luis Luna followed by 10 Leonardo Quintero. 11 STATEMENT OF MR. LUNA 12 MR. LUNA: My name is Luis Luna, 13 L-U-I-S, L-U-N-A. 14 I come here to speak because of my 15 community, because most of us can barely make 16 ends meet. Most of us are trying to scrape 17 by. You see people barely with enough food 18 to feed families, barely enough to drive, get 19 gasoline. They need more money, making it 20 harder for people to scrape by. And it will 21 affect thousands of thousands of families. 22 That is it. 23 (Audience clapping.) 24 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Luna. 25 Next we have Leonardo Quintero 26 followed by Daniel Beeman. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. QUINTERO 28 MR. QUINTERO: Good afternoon, my name PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1706 1 is Leonardo Quintero. That is 2 L-E-O-N-A-R-D-O, Q-U-I-N-T-E-R-O. 3 I'm here by behalf of Chavez and my 4 community to say that it is unfair that SDG&E 5 wants to raise our bills because of an error 6 they did. 7 Something that I have learned from 8 being here in America, and being raised here 9 as well, is that you should be responsible 10 for your actions. And I believe that it is 11 not correct that we are being shown by SDG&E 12 that you can get -- bypass that and just have 13 others solve your problems. I think that is 14 very wrong. 15 And I hope that you guys don't waste 16 as well, because it is very hard to live here 17 in San Diego especially. And also this can 18 be driven by hundreds of years. For example, 19 in the beginning how this nation started by 20 the Constitution, because the richest were 21 taxing us, overtaxing us. And they wanted us 22 to pay for a war where it wasn't our fault, 23 which was a seven-year war. They were angry 24 as well as we are today. 25 I'm coming here to tell you that it 26 is not fair what you are doing, and it is not 27 our fault. So we please ask that you don't 28 do it. Thank you for your time. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1707 1 (Audience clapping.) 2 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Quintero. 3 Next is Daniel Beeman followed by 4 Josan Feathers. 5 STATEMENT OF MR. BEEMAN 6 MR. BEEMAN: Hello, my name is Daniel 7 Beeman, D-A-N-I-E-L, B-E-E-M-A-N. And I feel 8 so proud to be supported by the young people 9 here. I don't think I've ever been to a 10 utility commission meeting that had so many 11 great young people speaking. 12 (Audience clapping.) 13 MR. BEEMAN: Mr. Dudney, I ask that you 14 go and visit their community. You will see 15 that even though for over a decade, I think 16 two decades, we've been paying to have 17 undergrounding for utility lines. These 18 neighborhoods do not have undergrounding yet 19 even though they've been paying as ratepayers 20 for multiple decades under SDG&E 21 undergrounding of utility lines. 22 This is what happens again and again 23 to us ratepayers in San Diego and the region 24 from SDG&E. They take our money, they look 25 away, and then they give it to their big 26 powerful friends and to their own executives. 27 This is very sad. And it isn't the way it is 28 supposed to be done, as they have PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1708 1 illustrated. They've given us a history 2 lesson tonight, and they've told us the way 3 it should be done. 4 Now, we need to command it. We need 5 the rate reduction. We didn't make the 6 mistake. We didn't make a number of mistakes 7 they made. We do not gain 5 to 18 percent 8 annually on profits like Sempra corporation 9 does. They have been a buy or a hold stock 10 for decades now. And that is what their 11 future looks like, because it is on our 12 backs. And I'm tired of it. They need to be 13 like the other utility companies north of us, 14 and they need to invest in alternative energy 15 generation. They need to stop nickel and 16 diming us. 17 You know this is the way that they 18 play the game because they are quote, unquote 19 a public utility. No, they are a monopoly. 20 They are a monopoly on our backs, and they 21 don't let any other utility come in here. 22 That is not fair. They are going to be a 23 monopoly. 24 They don't have to have a huge 25 guaranteed percentage of profit. They need 26 to be respectful. They don't have to 27 guarantee that the stockholders make double 28 digits in returns percentage-wise each year. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1709 1 We deserve better. We ask for better. We 2 ask for a rate reduction first, and we ask 3 that you oversee how the money is spent. 4 Lastly, I ask that Raymond Lutz be 5 added to a public commission that was 6 recommended by the -- by the NRC this last 7 week to overlook what happens with San 8 Onofre. 9 This water I have here is for a 10 reason, because I'm scared of pollution that 11 could happen when they shut it down. 12 Thank you very much. 13 (Audience clapping.) ] 14 Next is Josan Feathers, followed by 15 Patricia Borchmann. 16 STATEMENT OF MS. FEATHERS 17 MS. FEATHERS: My name is Josan 18 Feathers. That's J-O-S-A-N, F-E-A-T-H-E-R-S. 19 As a registered civil engineer, I'm 20 outraged that SDG&E and SCE would even 21 consider requiring the ratepayers to pay for 22 their defective San Onofre power plant. 23 SCE was responsible for failing to 24 identify the flawed design for four 25 replacement steam generators which led to 26 excessive wear of hundreds of tubes carrying 27 radioactive water. We are fortunate that a 28 massive nuclear accident did not occur at PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1710 1 this plant. 2 SCE admits Mitsubishi Heavy 3 Industries should assume the entire cost of 4 the botched steam generator replacement 5 program and related high-pressure turbine 6 project. It was their lack of engineering 7 capabilities and oversight that led to the 8 complete failure of the system. Ratepayers 9 should not be stuck with the bill due to 10 their ineptitude. 11 Finally, the shareholders' 12 investments need to be subjected to the risk 13 of their unsuccessful projects. Sempra 14 Energy continues to reap profits at our 15 expense, as do the CEOs and upper management. 16 There must be some incentive for these 17 utility monopolies to design and build 18 well-engineered projects. 19 The California Public Utilities 20 Commission is supposed to protect the public. 21 That's why it says "public." 22 (Audience clapping.) 23 MS. FEATHERS: Not these huge 24 for-profit monopolies. Please do the right 25 thing and serve the citizens of California. 26 Thank you. 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Feathers. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1711 1 Next is Patricia Borchmann, 2 followed by Retha Knight. 3 STATEMENT OF MS. BORCHMANN 4 MS. BORCHMANN: First, my name is 5 Patricia Borchmann. I'm a senior. I'm a 6 resident in Escondido, a city in North San 7 Diego County. 8 First, I want to thank the 9 Commission for convening and hosting -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: Speak 11 closer to the microphone. 12 MS. BORCHMANN: -- for hosting a public 13 meeting here in San Diego in a reactive 14 community. I'm aware that oftentimes the 15 Commission meetings are in other cities 16 located in the state and oftentimes your 17 meetings are in San Francisco, which can make 18 a real hardship for people in our reactive 19 communities to actively participate. So I 20 very much want to thank you for having the 21 meeting here in a local community where, you 22 know, citizens can be active participants. 23 That's what we want, and we appreciate your 24 being responsive to that need. 25 I submitted e-mailed comments and 26 also a letter that I presented at the Nuclear 27 Regulatory Commission hearing last week. My 28 understanding is both utilities -- that PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1712 1 Southern California Edison and SDG&E have 2 both submitted rate increase requests to 3 recover their costs associated with the 4 defective steam generators that were 5 installed at very large expense that were 6 defective. 7 And in addition to that, the energy 8 replacement costs, which is excessively 9 expensive, and the design work and 10 consultants that they retained in order to 11 develop a defective restart plan for Unit 12 Two. I am very grateful that the units were 13 shut down in June of this year. Because the 14 steam generators were so badly damaged from 15 design defects, they were never safe to 16 operate or even restart. 17 So, essentially, those reactors 18 have been abandoned. They were never 19 operating, and they were never useful, they 20 were never productive, and they never 21 produced energy since January of 2012. So 22 there is no legitimate reason that, you know, 23 that ratepayers should be required to absorb 24 the costs of the design defects and mistakes 25 that the utilities made. 26 A lot of the comments have been 27 directed to SDG&E only, and I would like to 28 make sure that the Commission is aware that PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1713 1 we're aware that SDG&E is a minor player in 2 this picture. The big player here is 3 Southern California Edison. And so I think 4 that most of the negative comments from the 5 public so far, in addition to SDG&E, they 6 belong with -- in the lap of Southern 7 California Edison's. 8 Ratepayers are in no way 9 responsible. Evidence shows SDG&E and Edison 10 knew well in advance that fluid elasticity 11 would cause tube damage, thermal instability, 12 severe degradation of tube lining, plus an 13 inability of tubes to properly operate to 14 support the accelerator retainer bars. 15 Thank you very much. 16 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Borchmann. 17 Next is Retha Knight, followed by 18 Derek Casady. 19 STATEMENT OF MS. KNIGHT 20 MS. KNIGHT: Retha, R-E-T-H-A, Knight, 21 K-N-I-G-H-T. And I'm a single mother. I'm 22 close to retirement. I can't afford the 23 rates as it is now. While I was raising my 24 daughter, I had to juggle my bills just to 25 pay them. One month I would pay SDG&E; the 26 other month, Cox, you know. But always I had 27 to pay my rent. And it's difficult to make 28 ends meet, especially when our utility rates PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1714 1 are the highest in California. I mean -- and 2 there were kids here from school; their 3 parents can barely make it, you know. 4 And I remember when SONGS was 5 built. It was a bad idea, to begin with, 6 putting that on a fault. But, you know, 7 there is just too much rate -- too many rate 8 increases. And they got a rate increase or 9 they got their profits increased this year. 10 People from Orange County, whatever 11 cities that SCE services, and San Diego, were 12 all opposed to it. I have friends up in 13 Orange County, LA. So we're just asking that 14 you take into consideration that they broke 15 it; they need to fix it. 16 (Audience clapping.) 17 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Knight. 18 Next is Derek Casady, followed by 19 Leon Cook. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. CASADY 21 MR. CASADY: Good evening. My name is 22 Derek Casady. That's spelled D, as in David, 23 E-R-E-K, C-A-S, as in Sam, A-D-Y. 24 I'm very disappointed that the 25 Commission can't have one Commissioner here 26 tonight to -- 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 MR. CASADY: -- in San Diego here, to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1715 1 speak to one Commissioner. No offense to 2 you, sir. I understand that you are paid by 3 the PUC to conduct these hearings. And 4 that's your job, and you're doing a great job 5 at that. But I really resent that the 6 Commission can't have one Commissioner. 7 Now, there was a Commissioner here 8 this afternoon. But that's when a lot of 9 people are working. And it really bugs me 10 that at night, when working people can be 11 here, we don't have a Commissioner. 12 If I were on the Commission, I 13 would go all over this state listening to the 14 people so that I would know what's happening 15 with the people. 16 This Commission has a chance to 17 make a decision now for the people or for the 18 investors of these private utilities. And 19 it's going to be interesting to see which way 20 they come down on this matter. Up to now, 21 I -- you know, I am an older guy -- old guy, 22 and I have been watching the PUC for a long 23 time. And believe you me, it doesn't have 24 much support in the communities of this 25 state. It's because they always favor the 26 utilities. And I'm really sick and tired of 27 that. 28 Now, the good news is tonight PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1716 1 you've heard -- I am so impressed with these 2 students. I have never seen anything like 3 this where a high school comes out and the 4 students and their teachers make their views 5 known. And I was so impressed by that and it 6 really moved me. 7 And if I were a Commissioner, just 8 based on that, I would say we got to go for 9 the people. But this Commission isn't going 10 to do that, I fear. I really fear that, 11 unfortunately -- I don't know how this is 12 being handled, but you'll probably make a 13 transcript out of this, and then you'll give 14 it to the Commissioners; and they may read it 15 or they may not. Just reading it, though, is 16 not the same as being here and hearing these 17 students. And I say maybe you can 18 communicate to them how it felt, if it felt 19 to you like it did to me. 20 But I really hope that they decide 21 for once and turn things around for the 22 Public Utilities Commission and decide for 23 the people. We've heard what it means to 24 people, and it doesn't mean the same to the 25 investors. Those investors can all take a 26 hit and it's not going to be a big thing to 27 them. A little hair cut would probably be 28 good for them. But for everyday people, it's PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1717 1 really hard, these rate increases that are 2 being proposed. And I hope they do the right 3 thing and don't let them go through. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Casady. 6 Next is Leon Cook, to be followed by 7 Manny Aguilar. 8 STATEMENT OF MR. COOK 9 MR. COOK: That's a hard act to follow. 10 Good evening. I'm Leon Cook. I'm here as a 11 small business owner. I service several 12 communities here in San Diego. 13 And since the economic downturn, we 14 all know it's been tough to make ends meet. 15 I hope all these people who are struggling to 16 make mortgage payments, struggling to make 17 car payments, struggling to put food on the 18 table, they -- the last thing we need, as a 19 community, is another increase brought on by 20 poor decisions from SDG&E and other utility 21 companies. 22 I think that the voices heard here, 23 it's very clear that we're in opposition of 24 that. I stand here directly in opposition. 25 And I do feel if there were more people -- if 26 SDG&E was required to fill these seats or to 27 just televise in such a clear and concise 28 manner -- people in opposition. So the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1718 1 message needs to get out that the clear point 2 I would like to make that they do a better 3 job about this, telling people they are 4 already paying for these services that are 5 not being offered. Because right now, very 6 few people actually know that this is a new 7 increase. 8 So again I oppose this, and I would 9 hope that you take this back to the people 10 and the Commissioners and make a clear 11 decision on behalf of the communities, 12 not the utilities' revenues. 13 Thank you. 14 (Audience clapping.) 15 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Cook. 16 Next is Manny Aguilar, followed by 17 Daughlet Ordinario. 18 STATEMENT OF MR. AGUILAR 19 MR. AGUILAR: Hi. My name is Manny 20 Aguilar, M-A-N-N-Y, A-G-U-I-L-A-R. I'm a VP 21 for a local contracting company, and I walk 22 into many homes. 23 I think the lack of education by 24 Southern Edison is something we need. I walk 25 into homes with people who have 20-year old 26 refrigerators, stoves that they can't turn on 27 and increase their energy bills. And simple 28 things like weather stripping, and the lack PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1719 1 of education and weatherization such as 2 double-paned windows, I believe people who 3 qualify should be funded for these things. I 4 think education is a big thing. 5 I think to be hit with this 6 increase, including these wonderful students 7 who were just here who have a plan -- their 8 parents already have a plan set aside 9 financially, as well as those who are about 10 to retire, and now they are going to take 11 this hit that they probably won't be able to 12 recover from. 13 These students are the future. And 14 those who are retired can educate these 15 students, I believe you are taking that away. 16 Thank you. 17 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Aguilar. 18 Daughlet Ordinario -- I apologize, 19 I'm probably badly mispronouncing this one -- 20 who will be followed by Lyn Kagey. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. ORDINARIO 22 MS. ORDINARIO: Good evening, sir. I'm 23 embarrassed to say that I don't know much 24 about the failed power plant and the rate 25 increases because I just go about doing my 26 business, running my business, so I can make 27 a living. 28 I feel that SDG&E is not doing a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1720 1 great job of educating the community and the 2 people like me who are busy, self-employed 3 people. And also one of the things that I do 4 for a living is I manage the acquisition of 5 the NEAC who are buying properties and 6 helping them to sell to low-to-moderate 7 income first-time home buyers. And we 8 deliver the property to them as a safe and a 9 healthy property. And oftentimes our holding 10 times is four to six months. 11 And raising the rate, meaning we -- 12 NEAC is a non-profit, and we don't get a 13 break off our utility bills. We pay like 14 everybody does. And raising the rate means 15 more expenses for us, and that's less money 16 for NEAC to do the programs about educating 17 homeowners in their home and, you know, 18 helping them, first-time home buyers, and 19 taking them, too. 20 So I think the rate increase at 21 this time will really hurt not just, you 22 know, homeowners, but business owners and 23 non-profits like us. 24 Thank you. 25 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Ordinario. 26 Next is Lyn Kagey, followed by 27 Jennifer Igmenhurtado. 28 STATEMENT OF MS. KAGEY PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1721 1 MS. KAGEY: Hi. My name is Lyn Kagey, 2 L-Y-N, K-A-G-E-Y. 3 I didn't come here planning to 4 speak tonight, but I just can't sit and not 5 say something about the fact that none of the 6 Commissioners are here. I think that's 7 extremely disappointing. 8 The electric companies built SONGS 9 in the late Seventies, and the companies are 10 responsible for maintaining SONGS. They had 11 the generators replaced by Mitsubishi, and 12 the parts were faulty and the reactors were 13 shut down as a result. Huge reactors like 14 SONGS are built with planned life spans and 15 obsolescence. The plant has been operating 16 for 30 years, and the expense of building it 17 should have been completely written off by 18 now. 19 Utilities -- the fact that it is no 20 longer operable is completely foreseeable and 21 should have been planned for. The expense 22 should be born by the companies and the stock 23 holders and not the ratepayers. 24 Thank you. 25 (Audience clapping.) 26 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Kagey. 27 Jennifer Igmenhurtado, followed by 28 Rougenia Harrison. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1722 1 STATEMENT OF MR. IGMENHURTADO 2 MS. IGMENHURTADO: Good evening, sir. 3 I am Jennifer Igmenhurtado. J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R, 4 I-G-M-E-N-H-U-R-T-A-D-O. I am a government 5 employee. 6 And as you may know, the government 7 is shutting down. So SDG&E should not add to 8 the stress of us government employees. Gas 9 and electric are a necessity, so just like 10 food on the table. Increase could mean a 11 meal off the table. 12 So please don't increase the rate. 13 Thank you. 14 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss 15 Igmenhurtado. 16 Next is Rougenia Harrison, who will 17 be followed by Gordon Shackelford. 18 STATEMENT OF MS. HARRISON 19 MS. HARRISON: Hi. I'm Rougenia 20 Harrison, R-O-U-G-E-N-I-A, Harrison, 21 H-A-R-R-I-S-O-N. 22 When I think of San Diego Gas and 23 Electric, these things come to mind: 24 Monopoly, gouging, sticking it to us. SDG&E 25 is like a mafia at times. Sometimes I feel 26 like they are putting their foot in my neck 27 and trying to gouge my eyes out just because 28 they can. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1723 1 I refer -- I am referred to in my 2 family as the electricity police. I am 3 always saying don't do this in my house 4 because it's going to make my gas and 5 electric go up, because gas and electric is 6 steadily increasing year after year. 7 I am a conserver. I try my best to 8 keep my rates low. And I even went so far as 9 to paint my bathroom a bright yellow color, 10 my kitchen a bright green color, something 11 like my shirt, just so I have the illusion of 12 light on in my house. 13 I would like for the SDG&E to lower 14 the rates. Also, with SDG&E rates, the 15 rates, so does everyone else. The California 16 taxes want more money. The SEC, and every 17 other acronym that's on the bill, wants more 18 money. We need them to lower our rates. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Harrison. 21 Next is Gordon Shackelford, 22 followed by Jo Ann Vance. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. SHACKELFORD 24 MR. SHACKELFORD: Thank you. I think I 25 would like to correct the last speaker. Our 26 electric rates aren't really going up every 27 year, they are actually going up every month. 28 Essentially, every bill we get has some kind PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1724 1 of an increase in it. 2 When you consider what the role of 3 the utility is, it is obviously to provide 4 reliable energy, and they have done that 5 fairly well. There have been a couple of 6 major increases recently that were not 7 handled and probably shouldn't have happened 8 at all. 9 But beyond that, when you start 10 thinking about what one ought to be able to 11 expect, is one of them is don't break the 12 machines. Power plants are the major assets 13 of the utility and other ratepayers, and 14 breaking them is really, really, serious. 15 The other one that's a good thing 16 to try not to do is try not to burn down the 17 county. Well, they did that, too. And if 18 you go through this, has there been any cost 19 to it? Not apparently. 20 As a matter of fact, the 21 high-ranking management of the two utility 22 companies in some cases have been promoted. 23 They're still there. So, you know, it 24 doesn't quite figure that being a 25 private-industry type thing, if you can break 26 the machine and burn down the county and get 27 promoted. 28 But I think the thing we have to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1725 1 look at on this is in the steam generator, 2 they were working in the area of primary 3 coolant. Primary coolants coming off the 4 core, it's highly radioactive. The pressures 5 and temperatures are high. The water moves 6 like Niagara Falls -- well, that's an 7 exaggeration, but a very intense environment. 8 And the idea of playing around with 9 the design, for reasons I cannot understand, 10 is something that never should have occurred, 11 never should have been allowed to occur, and 12 indeed they owe for it because the basic 13 point is they broke one of our major assets. 14 And there has to be accountability. 15 Otherwise, what we have is we have a very 16 peculiar private industry here, enterprise, 17 that somehow or another is covered, no matter 18 how badly they screw up. And there is a 19 point where that has to end, and the primary 20 responsibility has to be there. 21 There is a point, frankly, where 22 chief executives in these offices ought to be 23 fired for it. That's not directly a role of 24 the PUC, but it tells you something about the 25 situation. They need to pay for this. 26 Thank you. 27 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, 28 Mr. Shackelford. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1726 1 Next is Jo Ann Vance, who will be 2 followed by Charlene Norwood. 3 STATEMENT OF MS. VANCE 4 MS. VANCE: Hello. I'm Jo Ann Vance. 5 Capital J-O, capital A-N-N, capital 6 V-A-N-C-E. 7 And I, too, wasn't going to speak, 8 but as sitting here -- and that's my pastor, 9 Pastor Anthony L. Hughes, and we came 10 together to support what's going on. And I 11 wasn't even sure about all that was 12 happening. 13 But now, as I'm tuning in, and I 14 too am very conscientious. I don't abuse 15 electricity. I even have my children -- I 16 had them grow up the same way, to conserve. 17 And I only wash once a week. And real hot, I 18 don't turn on my air-conditioning. I have 19 air-conditioning. I didn't turn it on 20 because I didn't want to pay the 21 extraordinary bill that it was going to cost. 22 I fan and I, you know, dealt with that. 23 And these young people here -- and 24 I'm also a teacher. And it really touched my 25 heart that these poor children try to get an 26 education so they can have a better life here 27 in America. And we should be living by 28 example. And we're teaching them, hey, you PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1727 1 can just mess up and then cover it up and 2 somebody else will pay for it. I think we 3 need to live by example what we are teaching 4 them so they can grow up to be responsible 5 citizens. I think it's very important. 6 You're gonna raise our rates. We 7 are conscientious. I live in a neighborhood, 8 Broadway Heights, and I don't qualify for the 9 solar. My salary look good on paper, but 10 when you pay all these bills, it's really not 11 that great. And so I didn't qualify for it. 12 But I'm very conscientious of it. 13 I think we should not pay more. I 14 think we should be allowed to use and pay for 15 what we use, and not somebody else's mistake. 16 Thank you. 17 (Audience clapping.) 18 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Vance. 19 Next is Charlene Norwood. 20 STATEMENT OF MS. NORWOOD 21 MS. NORWOOD: C-H-A-R-L-E-N-E, 22 N-O-R-W-O-O-D. I am a real person that is 23 just dogmatic about conservation and 24 conserving and recycling. I make myself 25 crazy with it sometimes. And I don't like to 26 spend money on utilities. And I made a 27 concerted effort to make my home energy 28 efficient, like the young man that spoke PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1728 1 earlier that said we all needed to do. 2 Over the years, I replaced my 3 windows with double-paned windows. I 4 replaced my 20-year old refrigerator with an 5 efficient one. My washer broke down; so it's 6 efficient. I have caulking around my doors. 7 I've done everything that I know how to do to 8 make my home efficient. And my bill, even 9 though it showed for the month of August, 10 September that I used less electricity, was 11 higher than it was a year ago, higher than it 12 was a year ago when I used more electricity. 13 I don't know what more I can do to make life 14 work in my favor as far as paying for 15 utilities. 16 It doesn't make sense when I see a 17 CEO getting $3.4 million, and I can't do 18 anything else to bring my bill down. It just 19 keeps going up for no apparent reason. 20 I am one person in a home. I shut 21 off rooms I don't use. What else can we do? 22 It just isn't fair. And so... 23 (Audience clapping.) 24 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Miss Norwood. 25 Miss Norwood was the last person on 26 my list. Is there anyone else who wishes to 27 speak tonight? 28 Sir, please, come up. ] PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1729 1 STATEMENT OF MR. JUNGK 2 MR. JUNGK: I'm Charlie Jungk, 3 J-U-N-G-K, from Escondido. 4 Looking up at the sky, God gave us a 5 huge power surge a long time ago we can use. 6 A fusion reactor, a nice safe spot way up 7 there. It delivers all the energy all of us 8 can use in a day. 9 I've got a couple of solar panels on 10 my roof. It generates all the electricity 11 that I need, especially since my teenager 12 just moved out. But I just -- every time a 13 see an empty roof I say boy, there should be 14 a solar panel on that. I know it is an 15 initial investment for everybody, but I think 16 that is where we all should be going. That 17 is where, you know, we don't need big 18 reactors. We don't need another gas power 19 plant, you know. God gave us a sun a long 20 time ago. We should use it. 21 (Audience clapping.) 22 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Jungk. 23 Is there anyone else who would like 24 to address us tonight? 25 STATEMENT OF MS. HORTON 26 MS. HORTON: My name is Gloria Horton, 27 G-L-O-R-I-A, H-O-R-T-O-N, and I live in 28 Escondido like this gentleman. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1730 1 I only have a couple of things to 2 say. The California Public Utilities 3 Commission is the Commission that decides 4 whether any utility can raise their rates. 5 As far as that goes, we shouldn't even have 6 to be here tonight, because you know why they 7 are doing it, and you have approved others. 8 And this should have been just a no, no. We 9 should have to do all of this. 10 Let me give you an example. Suppose 11 you were fortunate enough to own a rental 12 house, and you had tenants in there. And you 13 go into that house, and you are going to put 14 some things in it that is going to benefit 15 them. But all of a sudden what you put in 16 just did the opposite, and they did some 17 damage. Then you go to your tenant and say, 18 well, you know, I had good intentions, but 19 you are going to have to pay for that. That 20 is exactly what they are doing. 21 And the California utility, Public 22 Utilities Commission knows this. They know 23 what they've done. We shouldn't have to have 24 this meeting. You should have just told them 25 no, and you are going to get back what you 26 already charged. 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 ALJ DUDNEY: Thank you, Ms. Horton. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1731 1 Anyone else who wishes to speak 2 tonight? 3 (No response.) 4 ALJ DUDNEY: Okay, I don't see any 5 other hands. 6 That completes the presentation of 7 the speakers. I thank everyone for your 8 comments and reiterate that a transcribed 9 record of your comments will be made 10 available to members of the Commission as 11 they consider issues and render a decision in 12 this matter. 13 Thank you again for your 14 participation. This public participation 15 hearing is adjourned. Good night. 16 (Whereupon, at the hour of 7:42 p.m., this Public Participation Hearing 17 concluded.) 18 * * * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 1732 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) ) Order Instituting Investigation on ) the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Investigation Services and Facilities of Southern ) 12-10-013 California Edison Company and San ) Diego Gas and Electric Company ) Application Associated with the San Onofre ) 13-01-016 Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) and 3. ) Application ) 13-03-005 ) And Related Matters. ) Application ) 13-03-013 ) ) Application ) 13-03-014 ) CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Ana M. Gonzalez, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11320, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on October 1, 2013. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 1st day of October, 2013. _________________________ Ana M. Gonzalez CSR No. 11320 1733 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) ) Order Instituting Investigation on ) the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Investigation Services and Facilities of Southern ) 12-10-013 California Edison Company and San ) Diego Gas and Electric Company ) Application Associated with the San Onofre ) 13-01-016 Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) and 3. ) Application ) 13-03-005 ) And Related Matters. ) Application ) 13-03-013 ) ) Application ) 13-03-014 ) CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Gayle Pichierri, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11406, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on October 1, 2013. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 1st day of October, 2013. _________________________ Gayle Pichierri CSR No. 11406