BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA In Attendance: COMMISSIONER MICHEL PETER FLORIO ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE MELANIE M. DARLING, presiding ) PUBLIC Order Instituting Investigation on ) PARTICIPATION the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) HEARING Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Services and Facilities of Southern ) California Edison Company and San ) Investigation Diego Gas and Electric Company ) 12-10-013 Associated with the San Onofre ) Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) and 3. ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT Costa Mesa, California February 21, 2013 Pages 1 - 237 Volume - 1 Reported by: Ana M. Gonzalez, CSR No. 11320 Gayle Pichierri, CSR No. 11406 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 2 1 I N D E X 2 STATEMENTS 3 MR. LINDSEY 20 4 MR. HERNANDEZ 23 MS. ISEMAN 26 5 MR. NAGEL 29 MS. SULLIVAN 31 6 MS. SRAMEK 36 MR. LIVINGSTON 37 7 MS. LY 38 MS. SPEHN 41 8 MR. ADAMS 44 MR. MUELLER 45 9 MR. LUTZ 47 MS. MOSS 50 10 MS. VAN THILLO 51 MR. STARR 53 11 MS. LARKIN-REED 56 MR. DUTENHOEFER 56 12 MR. DWYER 57 MR. MUNSON 59 13 MS. BORCHMANN 59 MR. HOLTZMAN 61 14 MR. BERECZKY 63 MS. SPATT 66 15 MR. EDER 67 MS. DAVIS 69 16 MR. ROSE 71 MR. FRANCO 72 17 MS. KERNAHAN 73 MS. BRASHEARS 74 18 MS. SHADER 77 MR. HUGHES 78 19 MR. ROSANSKY 80 MR. STEINER 82 20 MR. MOLDOW 84 MR. CURRY 85 21 MR. HEADRICK 87 MR. CAMPBELL 89 22 MR. ZIGLAR 92 MR. FREEMAN 93 23 MS. FINDLAY-KANEKO 95 MS. JAHNKOW 98 24 MS. BECKER 100 MR. MOORE 102 25 MR. JOHNSON 103 MR. KELLY 105 26 MS. HARRIS-HICKS 107 MR. KERNAHAN 109 27 MS. JOHNSON 112 MS. HARTFIELD 114 28 MR. KRAMER 116 MS. MILLER 123 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 3 1 MR. DIETRICH 128 MR. MENSINGER 135 2 MR. PULIDO 136 MR. GROSE 140 3 MS. KOGERMAN 144 MR. GARCIA 146 4 MR. HARPER 150 MS. BAUTISTA 152 5 MR. COMO 156 MR. KEENAN 158 6 MS. KUCHMIA 160 MR. LABAR 163 7 MR. KRAMER 165 MS. COLLIN 170 8 MR. MENDOZA 173 MR. AGUIRRE 174 9 MR. FAWCETT 177 MS. DITTY 180 10 MR. AGUINAGA 182 MS. CAVECCHE 184 11 MR. PETERSON 187 MS. IMHOOF 188 12 MS. MASSEY 193 MR. ENGLISH 196 13 MR. HARRIS 198 MS. RESON 201 14 MR. FORBAATH 203 MR. POISET 211 15 MS. LEVINE 216 MR. POISET 218 16 MR. BLACK 222 MR. SIMPSON 225 17 MR. COLLAMER 226 MS. SULLIVAN 228 18 MR. EDER 231 MR. CAMPBELL 233 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 4 1 SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 2 FEBRUARY 21, 2013 - 2:05 P.M. 3 * * * * * 4 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE DARLING: All 5 right. Will everyone please take a seat. We 6 would like to get started. Thank you. Can 7 you hear me? Yes? All right. 8 Good afternoon. I'm Melanie Darling. I am 9 the assigned Administrative Law Judge for this 10 proceeding. Today's date is February 21st, 2013. 11 This is a public participation hearing scheduled as 12 part of the California Public Utilities Commission's 13 investigation Number I.12-10-013 relating to the shut 14 down of the two nuclear units at San Onofre as a 15 result of operational problems with new steam 16 generators supplied by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. 17 As many of you already know, deciding 18 whether or not Edison may restart either unit under 19 its federal operating license is the job of the 20 Nuclear Regulatory Commission. We are not the Nuclear 21 Regulatory Commission. 22 This Commission has its own investigation to 23 look at what actions Edison took relative to the new 24 generator project and what Edison has done since the 25 company became aware of the damage at SONGS. SONGS is 26 an acronym you'll probably hear today; it stands for 27 San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station, which currently 28 has the two units. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 5 1 For example, Edison has collected and spent 2 money for SONGS in several categories since 3 January 2012, including planned operating and 4 maintenance costs, capital expenditures and post 5 outage expenses, including purchase of power to 6 replace that loss with the shutdown. In addition, the 7 entire cost of the steam generator replacement 8 project, including whether repairs or replacement will 9 be cost effective for ratepayers, will be included in 10 our investigation and review. 11 Furthermore, state law allows the Commission 12 to remove non-operating generation facilities from the 13 rate base. If the Commission decides to do that or 14 finds any of the expenditures to be unreasonable, we 15 can order refunds to ratepayers. 16 The Commission and the 26 intervening 17 parties in this proceeding will closely examine 18 Edison's testimony on these various matters at 19 evidentiary hearings which we will be holding later 20 this year. We believe our focus will likely evolve as 21 new information is obtained. 22 Today, we've decided to spend a small 23 portion of the first session getting information about 24 how well Edison works with local communities regarding 25 emergency preparedness related to the San Onofre 26 station. We've asked Edison to give us just a few 27 minutes to describe its efforts, particularly post 28 shutdown, communicating with its neighbors, and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 6 1 preparing for coordinated responses in the event of a 2 hazardous condition at SONGS. 3 We have also asked some of your local 4 government representatives to share their views on the 5 cooperation and communication between locals and 6 Edison representatives at San Onofre. Following that 7 portion of the hearing we will proceed with individual 8 members of the public. 9 At this point, I would like to ask Karen 10 Miller, the Commission's public advisor -- she is your 11 advocate here, and your source of information on how 12 to impact Commission proceedings. Could you give us a 13 little description of how this part will work? 14 MS. MILLER: Hello. It's on. Okay. 15 I'm Karen Miller. And as the Judge said, I'm 16 the public advisor at the Commission. And 17 first, I would like to ask everybody to turn 18 off their phones and all of that. 19 And then my office, we're there to assist 20 the public in getting comments to the Commissioners 21 and the Judge on all issues and proceedings before the 22 Commission. And so we facilitate with these public 23 participation hearings, and we will also provide 24 procedural information and advice to people who want 25 to participate, either on an informal or formal basis. 26 And we are available to talk with you to help you 27 determine, you know, which way you would like to get 28 involved, if you would like to get involved. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 7 1 We are really glad that you were able to 2 join us tonight because these public participation 3 hearings are really important to the Commission 4 decision makers such as Commissioner Florio and ALJ 5 Darling. It allows them to get a feel for what the 6 impacted consumers believe and think about the 7 situation before them. 8 If you wish to provide oral comments today, 9 if you haven't already signed up out in the lobby, 10 please go do so. People will have a maximum of three 11 minutes to speak. If you do not want to provide oral 12 comments or even if you have, you can still send 13 e-mail comments or you can do written comments -- we 14 have paper and pens outside -- and send them to the 15 Commission. They can be of any length. And we send 16 those to the Commissioners and to the Administrative 17 Law Judge. And then they go into the correspondence 18 file of the proceeding. And we also keep track of the 19 numbers that we receive. So they do get the attention 20 of the Commission when you send your written comments. 21 We also have agendas out at the sign-up 22 table. And on the back of the agendas is the address, 23 e-mail and hard mail address, that you can send 24 comments to. 25 And, let's see. We want to emphasize that 26 you have many ways to stay informed about this 27 proceeding. We have information on the back of the 28 agenda, and we also have brochures out on our table PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 8 1 about the Commission subscription service which you 2 can sign up for. Put this proceeding number in and 3 you'll get push-out alerts any time anything is 4 formally filed in the proceeding or there is rulings 5 or there are draft decisions or anything that comes 6 out. So you don't have to look for it. It gets 7 pushed out to you. 8 And then we also have the Consumer Affairs 9 Branch with the Commission out there. They're here to 10 help people who might have billing issues or questions 11 about their service. And we also have those from San 12 Diego Gas & Electric as well as Southern California 13 Edison out there, to also help people with billing 14 issues or questions about their utility service. 15 So thank you for your participation. If you 16 have any questions at all, please come out and talk 17 with us. We are more than happy to help you. 18 ALJ DARLING: Thank you, Karen. 19 Before we proceed, I would like to introduce 20 Commissioner Mike Florio who has been the driving 21 force behind this investigation and is the assigned 22 Commissioner. 23 Mr. Florio? 24 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Thank you. Good 25 afternoon, everyone. I want to welcome you 26 to this hearing. This is your day. This is 27 the chance for local elected officials, 28 members of the general public, anybody who PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 9 1 wants to speak to this Commission about the 2 issues involving San Onofre, to have your 3 say. It will be recorded and available to 4 all five members of the Commission to review 5 back in San Francisco. 6 This is a lengthy proceeding, I'm 7 sure too lengthy for some folks' wishes. But 8 it's a very complex matter. We will be 9 having formal evidentiary hearings with 10 testimony from Edison reviewed by our staff. 11 A number of interested parties have signed up 12 to participate: Friends of the Earth, 13 Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility, and a 14 long, long list of parties. 15 As ALJ Darling indicated, we do not 16 have jurisdiction over the nuclear safety 17 issues; that rests with the Nuclear 18 Regulatory Commission. But we do have 19 jurisdiction over non-nuclear aspects of 20 plant safety, reliability of the system, and 21 electric supply for California, environmental 22 impacts of the generation system and, of 23 course, ratepayer costs. 24 So there will be a number of tracks of this 25 proceeding that will look at different buckets of 26 costs, what's been incurred. We have legal briefing 27 ongoing this month and next that will help to define 28 the parameters of what the Commission can and can't do PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 10 1 under the law. And once that's complete, we will have 2 a series of decisions about different aspects of the 3 costs, what's already been spent, what might be 4 proposed to be spent. It will be a very thorough 5 review. 6 At this point, there is still a lot we don't 7 know. We have not seen the Mitsubishi document that's 8 been talked about in the press by Senator Boxer. 9 We're hoping to be able to get that, just as many of 10 you are. So this will be unfolding over a number of 11 months. 12 The Commission will be hearing from the 13 public throughout, but this is our opportunity to get 14 your feedback here on the ground in Southern 15 California. We'll have another hearing similar to 16 this in San Diego later this spring because, of 17 course, San Diego is also impacted by San Onofre. 18 Either in this proceeding or another related 19 proceeding, we will also soon start looking into what 20 do we'll do for electric supply and reliability if San 21 Onofre doesn't come back. That's been handled on kind 22 of an emergency basis up to now through the governor's 23 office. But at this point, we think there is enough 24 uncertainty about the long-term future of the plant, 25 that we really do need to take evidence and have a 26 very thorough look at how we can keep the lights on in 27 Southern California without this very pivotal piece of 28 infrastructure. That will involve cost issues, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 11 1 environmental issues, greenhouse gas emissions and a 2 whole -- the whole panoply of considerations that come 3 into play. 4 So this is -- we are still early in the 5 process. We welcome your participation. And, as 6 Karen indicated, we have a number of mechanisms for 7 you to stay informed and continue to provide feedback 8 throughout the proceeding. 9 So I'm going to keep quiet now. It's your 10 day, and I'll be listening carefully to all of the 11 input we have. 12 Thank you. 13 ALJ DARLING: All right. I want to 14 point out that there will be a transcript 15 prepared of this session today. We have a 16 court reporter. So when you are -- she'll be 17 taking down anything said from the podium. 18 So speak clearly and slowly, if you can, to 19 make sure that your comments are taken down. 20 That means the comments shouted from the 21 floor will not be transcribed. So, 22 hopefully, that means we will have an orderly 23 hearing today. 24 At this point we are going to ask -- 25 we'll ask Edison to be making its 26 presentation. I do want to point out that we 27 will be asking speakers to come up in groups 28 of five, once we get to individual members of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 12 1 the public, so that we can move people 2 through fairly easily and quickly. I'll call 3 five names. You'll come up here to the 4 front. And the public advisor staff will 5 help facilitate you getting to the microphone 6 easily. And that way, we don't waste time 7 and we have a chance to let everyone have 8 their chance to speak. 9 So at this point, Mr. Warden or 10 Mr. Dietrich will be giving us just a few 11 minutes. We have asked you to give us some 12 insight into how well you are cooperating and 13 interacting with your local government 14 neighbors about potential emergency 15 preparedness. 16 MR. DIETRICH: Thank you, Commissioner 17 Florio and Administrative Law Judge Darling, 18 for this opportunity to speak. And thank you 19 to members of the public for the opportunity 20 to speak for a few minutes here today. 21 In discussing our outreach and our 22 preparations for emergency preparedness, we thought it 23 would be appropriate to just briefly comment on what 24 the status is of the units and our progress through 25 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission process just to set 26 the framework, some of the timing of our outreach. 27 As most folks know, very well know, both 28 units of San Onofre have been shut down for over a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 13 1 year now. Last January, January 9th, Unit 2 was shut 2 down for a normal refueling outage. On January 31st, 3 Unit 3 experienced a small tube leak. Our operators 4 promptly identified, responded, safely took the unit 5 offline and put the unit in safe shut-down condition 6 with no threat or challenge to the health and safety 7 of the public. 8 We have conducted a thorough and 9 comprehensive analysis involving many outside experts 10 and expert groups of other companies, competitors of 11 each other in the steam generator business. We worked 12 to assemble a very thorough and detailed expert review 13 that involved challenge of both conclusions that were 14 reached, as well as the decision making that Southern 15 California Edison was using in our response to the 16 confirmatory action letter. 17 The confirmatory action letter is an 18 instrument agreed to between the Nuclear Regular 19 Commission and the licensee, Southern California 20 Edison, about what it would take to return a unit such 21 as San Onofre to service, the actions that need to be 22 accomplished. In completing our confirmatory 23 action letter response, we engaged pretty specifically 24 with these experts and with many others throughout the 25 industry, and also kept our local elected officials, 26 governments, businesses and those folks informed of 27 the progress that we were making. 28 We did reach a conclusion where we feel it PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 14 1 was safe to return Unit 2 to service. And so we 2 submitted our confirmatory action letter response on 3 Unit 2 on October 3rd of 2012. That also began a more 4 robust discussion with some of the outside groups 5 because we were able to talk about the conclusions we 6 had reached. 7 Currently, we stand working our way through 8 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission process, the 9 technical evaluation review of the submittal that we 10 had made. I will just share with the public, and 11 again with all people here, that our evaluation and 12 analysis is available on our songscommunity.com 13 website in its entirety, and as are most of the other 14 documents and things that support the conclusions we 15 have reached. 16 From an outreach standpoint, I mentioned 17 that the submittal of our confirmatory action letter 18 was very important to us because we could then go 19 forward and talk about our conclusions. We view our 20 responsibility to participate and discuss matters with 21 our local governments' officials and public very 22 seriously. We approach that in a multi-faceted manner 23 both through our website and through social media. We 24 recognize the emerging importance and use of social 25 media for communicating with folks, but nothing 26 surpasses face-to-face discussions. And we have 27 conducted over 500 meetings with local elected 28 officials. We have conducted over 100 community and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 15 1 business meetings. And we have conducted 15 briefings 2 at either city council or local county board meetings. 3 In addition to that, myself and Ron 4 Litzinger, the President of Southern California 5 Edison, had posted and briefed officials within 6 30 miles of the plant at specific briefings at San 7 Onofre, to speak with them personally about our 8 situation, answer their questions, and ensure that 9 they understood the conclusions that Southern 10 California Edison had reached. 11 On top of that, we have hosted open houses 12 in our local communities. We conducted several in 13 2011. But since our steam generator issue, we hosted 14 three specifically last year, focused on our steam 15 generator tube situation. And there are more to come. 16 Our next scheduled open house in one of the local 17 communities will occur the week of March 20th. 18 Also, our employees serve as ambassadors. 19 And there are several employees with us here today 20 from our local public affairs groups and other groups 21 who have the information that's pertinent and 22 applicable for people to be able to ask and receive 23 answers to their questions or route their questions to 24 people within the company to be able to give them a 25 prompt and complete answer. 26 Speaking of our employees as ambassadors, 27 let me shift now to the emergency response and 28 emergency preparedness organization and the activities PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 16 1 that we have undertaken. Our employees do make up our 2 emergency response organization. And we train and 3 qualify our employees to be able to fill required 4 billets or jobs within our emergency response 5 organization. And we have an emergency response 6 organization that's on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a 7 week, 52 weeks a year, where a team will respond to 8 the site in the event that we need to exercise our 9 emergency plan, and they will conduct specific and 10 thorough communications to all of our local 11 communities, as well as making sure we meet all of our 12 regulatory requirements and station requirements of 13 our emergency plan. 14 We view our responsibility to protect the 15 health and safety of the public as very important and 16 essential to our job, and we take a lot of pride in 17 what we do and how we do that. We also focus through 18 our emergency plan and our outreach on those in our 19 communities where English is not their first language. 20 So we have integrated all of those things into our 21 communications approach. 22 Some specific emergency planning activities 23 that we have undertaken and continue to undertake: We 24 have distributed an emergency preparedness brochure to 25 all 60,000 people and businesses and locations within 26 our emergency planning zone, that is within a ten-mile 27 radius of San Onofre. We have also done 17 outreach 28 presentations with local groups about that emergency PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 17 1 preparedness brochure. In addition, we have prepared 2 Camp Pendleton supplements to that emergency 3 preparedness brochure because we are located on the 4 Camp Pendleton facility and we recognize there are 5 many Marines and military families and groups that 6 reside on Camp Pendleton. 7 On top of that, we have worked with 8 Capistrano Unified School District, the local School 9 District within our area, and provided a cascading 10 brochure for instructions and information related to 11 how we work with the schools and what the schools 12 should do and in response to an emergency situation or 13 emergency response activities. That brochure was 14 reviewed with the Capistrano Unified School District 15 Parent-Teacher Association. And also we have allowed 16 and provided school visits, visits of school children 17 and teachers, to our control room simulator which is 18 located at the San Onofre facility. 19 We also engage in multiple emergency 20 planning forums with local groups, including and 21 probably most specifically the interjurisdictional 22 planning unit, which is a group of approximately nine 23 local state and government agencies around the San 24 Onofre Nuclear Generation Station that have some 25 interface and interconnection with our emergency 26 response organization and our emergency planning. We 27 do monthly meetings with the interjurisdictional 28 planning committee. And we also go to several PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 18 1 planning events where interjurisdictional planning 2 committee members are interfacing with other members 3 of the public. 4 On top of that, we obviously are required to 5 do, and we do with a lot of pride, our quarterly 6 drills, emergency planning drills, that includes 7 periodically siren tests with mailers and 8 communication with the public about how those siren 9 tests are going to be conducted. 10 And even on top of that, to ensure that we 11 do get good understanding with all of the members of 12 the public, we have worked through the local AT&T 13 White Pages to distribute a specific section of the 14 White Pages to all residents and people within the 15 emergency planning zone, with a specific section of 16 the phone book to provide instructions and information 17 related to our emergency response organization. 18 So we have been very focused on, since 19 submitting or confirmatory action letter, providing 20 information regarding the conclusions and decisions 21 that we have reached; also, a technical discussion 22 about what we have learned through our over 170,000 23 inspections within our steam generators to help people 24 understand and provide the facts related to our 25 situation. 26 We view our responsibility to consider and 27 protect the health and safety of the public very 28 seriously, and we take great pride in doing that. I PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 19 1 would just share lastly that all of our information 2 that I have talked about today can be found on our 3 website, songscommunity.com. 4 Thank you very much, Commissioner, Your 5 Honor. 6 ALJ DARLING: Thank you, Mr. Dietrich. 7 Yes. That is an important reference to your 8 website. We have ordered Edison and San Diego Gas & 9 Electric to post onto their website, so it's 10 accessible not just to parties in the proceeding, but 11 to all of you members of the public, you can get 12 access to all of the documents that Edison and San 13 Diego Gas & Electric are filing in this proceeding. 14 It has a link to the NRC's dedicated page for SONGS. 15 So you can use that website to get an awful lot of 16 information that would in ordinary circumstances be 17 generally more available to parties. So there has 18 been a higher level of transparency here, and we are 19 hoping that you make use of that. 20 All right. 21 (AUDIENCE MEMBER COMMENT.) 22 MR. DIETRICH: www.songscommunity, all 23 one string of letters there, 24 songscommunity.com. 25 ALJ DARLING: S-O-N-G-S -- 26 MR. DIETRICH: Community. 27 ALJ DARLING: -- community.com. Okay? 28 All right. At this time, I would PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 20 1 like to thank the elected officials who have 2 taken some time out of their day to come and 3 give us some information about their thinking 4 and about their interactions at the local 5 government level with Edison. 6 I would like to start with Mayor Tom Lindsey 7 from the City of Yorba Linda. 8 STATEMENT OF MR. LINDSEY 9 MR. LINDSEY: Good afternoon, Your 10 Honor, and Commissioner. 11 First of all, I would like to stress 12 appreciation for the public participation hearing 13 format. Very much appreciate that, the chance to be 14 here. 15 So, as you said, my name is Tom Lindsey, and 16 I am the current mayor of Yorba Linda. Yorba Linda 17 has approximately 65,000 residents, and it's accurate 18 to state that every single resident in Yorba Linda 19 cares greatly about their utility rates. 20 Our council grapples with other utility 21 rates such as water, sewer and landscape maintenance 22 all the time. We have a little feel for what you're 23 dealing with. It's my duty and honor, then, to relay 24 to you that the City of Yorba Linda cares greatly 25 about your findings here, and especially that our 26 power rates remain fair and equitable. That's all I 27 care to say as the mayor of Yorba Linda. 28 Now I would like to address you as a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 21 1 citizen, a 27-year homeowner in North Orange County, 2 and a father of four and a grandfather of five. A 3 week ago, Edison performed some scheduled maintenance 4 on my street for approximately eight hours. It's 5 amazing how a hundred years of technological progress 6 can be erased at the flip of a switch. Out came the 7 candles and lanterns, and out went life as we knew it 8 for that period. Questionably our lifestyles are tied 9 to the power we need, and I don't relish the thought 10 of life without it. My business is with hospitals and 11 in the health care industry. And it's amazing how 12 havoc is immediate when power is interrupted in that 13 environment. 14 I was, of course, concerned as I followed 15 the shutting down of the San Onofre nuclear power 16 plant. First, would there be interruption of service? 17 And, second, what would happen to may rates? 18 Thankfully, power has not been interrupted. 19 Hopefully, my rates will remain stable, equitable and 20 consistent with other areas of the country now. 21 Though I have been briefed as an elected 22 official and have tried to educate myself regarding 23 issues related to the ongoing closure of San Onofre, I 24 would not begin to presume myself any kind of an 25 expert regarding these rate discussions. However, I 26 urge the Commission to consider all factors fairly in 27 order to mitigate and justify any rate changes, 28 whether up or down, due to the factors surrounding the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 22 1 plant's closure. 2 As a citizen, I would like to be well 3 informed of the facts behind any rate adjustments, and 4 task the Commission to keep the public well informed 5 of their decisions in a transparent fashion. 6 In closing, my perspective -- only my 7 perspective -- is that Edison has served my family's 8 needs problem free for decades. I also believe that 9 the strides taken to assure safety at San Onofre have 10 been and continue to be sufficient to protect my 11 family. With safety concerns mitigated, it's now up 12 to you folks to make sure my rates are fair and 13 equitable. 14 Thanks for your input and work in this area. 15 And I would be happy to answer any questions you might 16 have about our local interface. 17 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Do you -- I don't 18 know the geography here, obviously, as well 19 as you folks who live within this community. 20 Are you within the ten-mile radius -- 21 MR. LINDSEY: No. 22 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: -- that 23 Mr. Dietrich talked about? 24 MR. LINDSEY: No. We're just east -- 25 just north of the 91. So we're considered 26 inland in Yorba Linda. North Orange County. 27 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Okay. Have you 28 had communications with the company about -- PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 23 1 MR. LINDSEY: Oh, we have probably more 2 communication with Edison than we would like 3 sometimes. And we do have, as a result of 4 the wind storm that we had, we were part of 5 that, I'm told that we have what's now called 6 a flash communication number that is in the 7 possession of the elected, but especially our 8 city manager, and that's a protected phone 9 number. So if we had any kind of an 10 incident, we would know where to call 11 directly and go around perhaps too just the 12 regular customer service number. 13 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: That's great. 14 Glad to hear it. 15 MR. LINDSEY: Okay. Thank you very 16 much. 17 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Gene Hernandez, city 18 councilman, also from City of Yorba Linda. 19 STATEMENT OF MR. HERNANDEZ 20 MR. HERNANDEZ: Thank you, Your Honor, 21 and Commissioner Florio. 22 I'll try not to be repetitive to what my 23 mayor just mentioned. But I am a city council member 24 for the City of Yorba Linda. But I am not here today 25 in that capacity, but more as a father and 26 grandfather and a resident of Yorba Linda for over 28 27 years -- actually, resident of Orange County for over 28 40. My concern is focusing on the increased cost for PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 24 1 electricity and what will happen to Orange County and 2 especially my constituents if, number one, SONGS is 3 not allowed to be a vital part of the California Green 4 Energy portfolio; two, what is the cost we will be 5 subjected to as ratepayers if the 2000-plus megawatts 6 of power has to be replaced if in fact the SONGS 7 facility is shut down permanently, as well as the time 8 it will take to build the replacement plant and 9 transmission lines; and, three, where will the new 10 transmission lines have to go? Plus, where will a new 11 plant be established? 12 Renewables are a good thing, but they are 13 not all equally reliable sources of power 24/7, 14 365 days a year. So Southern California Edison must 15 be able to provide enough base power to serve when the 16 wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine, and, of 17 course, at night when we all plug into our electric 18 items like iPhones, iPads, lap tops, desk top 19 computers, TVs, electronic vehicles, and the list goes 20 on and on. And I'm confident that Southern California 21 Edison and the Public Utilities Commission will do 22 their due diligence in getting the warranty dollars 23 and insurance dollars owed for the SONGS outage. And 24 although I'm sure something of those costs will be 25 folded into our rates, I'm encouraging both Southern 26 California Edison and the Public Utilities Commission 27 to be fair and just in this unusual situation. 28 And that concludes my remarks. I'll PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 25 1 certainly answer any questions that haven't been 2 addressed. By the way, Yorba Linda is the north side 3 of Orange County, probably closer to LA County, but we 4 do feel the power of Edison. 5 ALJ DARLING: I just wanted to ask you 6 a little -- we spoke a few minutes before 7 this public participation hearing, and you 8 said that Yorba Linda has been actively 9 involved in one of these inner-agency or 10 inner-local government groups that 11 Mr. Dietrich described. Is that accurate? 12 MR. HERNANDEZ: Yes, that is accurate. 13 In fact, we did attend on an invite -- 14 actually, I did and a fellow councilman went 15 down to SONGS. I was quite interested, as I 16 read in the papers. I don't know a lot about 17 nuclear power; that's not in my wheelhouse. 18 I'm a retired police chief, so I can tell you 19 about crime for 35 years. But when it comes 20 to power, I'm not there. To me, power is I 21 want to stay away from something that can 22 shock me. So I try to avoid those kind of 23 things. 24 But they did have an outreach to public 25 officials. I found that very informative. I feel 26 much more knowledgeable on the safety issues that took 27 place or kicked in that -- the backups. I understand 28 why now that did occur and what's been done in the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 26 1 interim. Bottom line is I want a source of clean, 2 renewable and affordable, safe power for my children 3 and my grandchildren. Like Mayor Lindsey, I also live 4 in the City of Yorba Linda, and with my three children 5 and four grandchildren. We're committed. And this is 6 where our home is and I want to make sure it's safe. 7 ALJ DARLING: My last quick question. 8 Did this outreach from Edison, did you have 9 that kind of outreach prior to last year? 10 MR. HERNANDEZ: Well, yes. As luck 11 would have it, being in city government, one 12 of the agents I worked for was just south of 13 my city. And the Edison liaison I've known 14 for over 35 years. So if I have an issue 15 with Edison, I call her and I get a quick 16 response. So it helps. 17 ALJ DARLING: All right. Thank you 18 very much. 19 Miss Toni Iseman. She is from the city 20 council of Laguna Beach, front and center with SONGS. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. ISEMAN 22 MS. ISEMAN: Thank you for having this 23 meeting today. This isn't easy, when I look 24 around the room and I see friends from 25 Edison, people I've known for many years that 26 I don't just know professionally, but 27 personally. And what I am going to say is 28 pretty harsh. We just heard about PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 27 1 evacuation. And if evacuation is part of the 2 mission of Edison in order to have San Onofre 3 remain a power plant, then it should close 4 today. 5 I live just outside the 10-mile. And the 6 last time I looked, I'm supposed to go in my house 7 with duct tape and towels. And that's probably not a 8 bad idea because I would just be sitting in my car 9 because there is no way to get out. I challenge you 10 to go down to San Clemente right now, and then at 11 five o'clock try to get back up here. Just try. If 12 it's really important, if evacuation is important, 13 then every single house that's built from this point 14 forward, there should be an EIR and justifying that 15 house in relationship to the traffic that we currently 16 have. 17 When we've had problems in the past and 18 needed Edison's help, it might be because a power pole 19 went down in Laguna Canyon, a car ran into it. The 20 pole goes down. The traffic's closed. The power 21 might go out. It may be 12 hours before it's fixed. 22 But it's a nuisance, it's not a crisis. 23 Maybe it's a power pole that is too heavy 24 and it breaks off and falls down. And there is always 25 that potential of fire. But we know that that kind of 26 technology is within the reach of Edison to do the 27 right thing. 28 But what I would like to say today is we PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 28 1 want all of the documents released and we want full 2 public disclosure on the information. 3 (Audience clapping.) 4 MS. ISEMAN: And before the plant is 5 restarted, if it's restarted, I would like to 6 have it be measured against the least cost 7 option for the consumer. 8 And I went to one of the meetings dealing 9 with the safety, sat with the head of a hospital, and 10 realized there is a lot of detail involved in how to 11 handle a radioactive body, and just how to keep part 12 of the hospital segregated. And then the question 13 came up with: What do you do with a radioactive 14 ambulance? What are we really dealing with? It's -- 15 if I were a parent that still had a child in this 16 area, I would think more than once about whether I 17 would want to remain in this area. 18 Now, Edison has the power, so to speak, but 19 you are the ones that actually have the power. You 20 have the power by saying no to the rate hike because 21 if you do, that will, hopefully, notify the ratepayers 22 and, more importantly, the stock holders that 23 something is going on that's not right. It's a real 24 consideration, if you think about health and safety, 25 what's best for health and safety, and that would be 26 to close the plant. 27 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 28 (Audience clapping.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 29 1 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Steve Nagel, council 2 member from Fountain Valley. And that will 3 be followed by Martha Sullivan from the San 4 Diego Unified School District. 5 STATEMENT OF MR. NAGEL 6 MR. NAGEL: I brought my smart phone to 7 look at my notes. Thank you very much for 8 the opportunity to speak today. Thank you, 9 your Honor, and Commissioner. 10 I am a city council member for the 11 City of Fountain Valley for the last five 12 years, and my obligation to my residents and 13 businesses is their safety. Also, the 14 utilities they pay. We keep in constant 15 contact with the state and local governments. 16 We work together to try to provide those 17 services at a cost that is the most efficient 18 and effective for everybody and within the 19 means that they can pay. 20 The rates that we're concerned with 21 with SONGS and the nuclear power plant, not 22 only is the safety paramount, as is the 23 everyday safety that we provide to our 24 citizens and residents is very important to 25 us. But with that, we have a nuclear 26 generating plant that's had thousands of 27 tests since it closed last year in January, 28 and it seems to be passing all the tests. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 30 1 They keep running the tests over and over 2 again with success and no leakage. 3 I also have some land down south of 4 the nuclear generating plant that I produce 5 avocados. It's important to me that 6 residents down there and my property is safe 7 from any kind of fallout from the generating 8 plant. I believe it is. As a previous fire 9 official, I had to call Edison many times on 10 accidents, and they provided not only 11 professional assistance, but safety was their 12 first concern. And I know safety is their 13 concern at the generating plant, as well as 14 to all of the residents that live around 15 there. 16 I was able to tour the plant about 17 ten years ago as a training officer with my 18 city. And not only is security extremely 19 important, but also the safety of all their 20 employees there. So I want to let everybody 21 know that I believe that Edison is doing the 22 right thing. They have been good community 23 partners with the City of Fountain Valley, 24 and not only with community events, but also 25 making sure that educational materials are 26 made available to the residents and they can 27 see what service they provide. But safety is 28 their big concern. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 31 1 Thank you very much for allowing me to speak 2 today and, hopefully, we can go forward. 3 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Miss Sullivan 4 from San Diego Unified School Board? 5 STATEMENT OF MS. SULLIVAN 6 MS. SULLIVAN: Good afternoon. Can 7 everybody hear me? 8 My name's Martha Sullivan. I'm here 9 representing Kevin Beiser, who is the Vice 10 President of the San Diego Unified School 11 District Board. Mr. Beiser asked me to 12 represent him. He's a teacher as well as a 13 member of the Board. He asked me to be here 14 to read the Board's resolution that was 15 passed last month on this matter. 16 The San Diego Unified School District is the 17 second largest school district in California. It's 18 responsible for 135,000 children and, obviously, many, 19 many staff members, teachers, people who take care of 20 the facilities and so forth. So it takes its 21 responsibilities for the care of the children and the 22 adults in its care very seriously. 23 So on January 22nd the Board voted 4 to 1 to 24 adopt the following resolution: {Reading.} 25 Whereas, the Board of Education of the San 26 Diego Unified School District believes restarting the 27 defective Unit 2 nuclear reactor at San Onofre will 28 have profound impacts on our children in San Diego PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 32 1 Unified and the surrounding communities in the event 2 of a nuclear accident regarding radiation 3 contamination of air, water and food, evacuation plans 4 and long-term viability of life in Southern 5 California; 6 And, whereas, Southern California Edison's 7 four replacement steam generators manufactured by 8 Mitsubishi for the two nuclear reactors at the San 9 Onofre site were shut down after one of their tubes 10 failed and released radiation on January 2012, after 11 less than two years operation while the original 12 equipment operated for 28 years; 13 And, whereas, Edison informed the Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission that the replacement steam 15 generators would be "like for like" or "in kind," that 16 is, fabricated to the same design specifications of 17 the original San Onofre Combustion Engineering steam 18 generators, but in fact the replacement generators 19 have significant design changes from the original 20 steam generators; 21 And, whereas, the NRC has reported that 22 design flaws and erroneous model calculations have led 23 to the malfunction of the new steam generators; 24 And, whereas, the replacement steam 25 generators in San Onofre Unit 2 and Unit 3 are 26 identical and are both showing excessive early tube 27 wear that the NRC confirmed poses a serious safety 28 problem; PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 33 1 And, whereas, a thorough NRC licensing 2 amendment process would have provided greater 3 opportunity to bring attention to the replacement 4 steam generator design problems, thus increasing the 5 likelihood of preventing use of the faulty design and 6 the ultimate shutdown of the San Onofre nuclear 7 facility; 8 And, whereas, failing again now to subject 9 the replacement steam generators of San Onofre to the 10 rigorous and transparent review of the NRC license and 11 amendment process risks repeating dangerous errors; 12 And, whereas, the consequences of regulators 13 inadequately ensuring nuclear reactor safety are 14 potentially severe; 15 And, whereas, in a decision filed on 16 December 15th, 2005, the CPUC allocated $680 million 17 to be paid by the ratepayers for four replacement 18 steam generators manufactured by Mitsubishi at 19 (Edison) San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station (569 20 million for replacement steam generator 21 installation, and $111 million for removal and 22 disposal of the original steam generators) with a 23 reasonableness review required for expenses beyond 24 this amount and a maximum ratepayer collection cap of 25 782 million; 26 And -- we're almost to the end -- whereas, 27 ratepayers are at risk for paying not only for the 28 crippled replacement steam generators, but also PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 34 1 potentially for costs associated with the outage and 2 with the equipment repair or replacement; 3 And, whereas, the PUC Division of Ratepayer 4 Advocates reports that customers of Edison and 5 20 percent owner, San Diego Gas & Electric, are paying 6 about $54 million a month for operating and 7 maintenance costs of San Onofre while the facility is 8 not producing any power, and recommends removing the 9 San Onofre facility from rates to prevent this from 10 continuing; 11 And, whereas, an OII was issued by the PUC 12 on November 1st, 2012, to determine in a transparent 13 public process which parties are responsible for 14 paying the costs associated with the faulty 15 replacement generators, including the costs incurred 16 during the shutdown (for example, replacement power, 17 inspections, monitoring) and the costs of any repairs; 18 And, whereas, it is therefore critical to 19 create and implement strong contingency plans for 20 alternative power sources to San Onofre, especially 21 those deriving from conservation, energy efficiency 22 and renewable resources, per the State of 23 California's Loading Order, state mandated targets, 24 and Governor Brown's Clean Energy Plan. 25 Now, therefore be it resolved, the Board of 26 Education of the San Diego Unified School District 27 urges the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission require 28 Edison undergo a public, transparent license amendment PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 35 1 hearing regarding the replacement steam generators, 2 before the San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station is 3 allowed to restart, and that the costs for doing so 4 and the responsibility for paying said costs must also 5 be known before restart is allowed; 6 And be it further resolved, that the Board 7 of Education of the San Diego Unified School District 8 strongly supports the California Public Utilities 9 Commission in: 1) expeditiously completing its 10 Investigation regarding the costs and reliability of 11 the San Onofre Nuclear Generation Station, and, 2) 12 comparing the reliability and costs of the San Onofre 13 facility to a future based on alternatives, including 14 efficiency, load management, demand response, 15 renewable energy and energy storage. 16 Adopted and approved by the Board of 17 Education of the San Diego Unified School District at 18 the regular meeting held on the 22nd day of January 19 2013. 20 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 21 (Audience clapping.) 22 MS. SULLIVAN: I'm going to give you 23 copies of that, as well as the letters and 24 Resolutions by several other cities, the 25 California Democratic Party, and the 26 California Majority Leader Toni Atkins. 27 ALJ DARLING: Great. Thank you. You 28 can give those to this gentleman right here. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 36 1 Our last elected official, 2 representative from the City of Long Beach on 3 behalf of Patrick O'Donnell, city council 4 member, Bridgette Sramek. 5 STATEMENT OF MS. SRAMEK 6 MS. SRAMEK: Good afternoon. Council 7 Member O'Donnell with the City of Long Beach, 8 excuse me, has asked me to extend his 9 greetings and read the following into the 10 record. 11 As a member of the local city council, I am 12 writing this letter to voice my support for SONGS and 13 SCE's proposed safe restart of the facility. Excuse 14 me. I have a cold. 15 SONGS provided important baseload 16 electricity that contributed to the electrical support 17 of the region. This baseload allowed for up to 18 2200 megawatts of clean, emission-free electricity, 19 nearly 10 percent of the region's power needs. If 20 SONGS were to remain offline, I have concerns about 21 the time frame in which SCE will be able to provide 22 its customers, who also reside in my district, with 23 alternative sources of energy. Excuse me. 24 Thank you for your thoughtful and rational 25 review of the support and energy issues impacting the 26 quality of life for those of us in Long Beach and 27 throughout the greater Southern California region. 28 Please feel free to contact me with any PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 37 1 questions. I would like to thank you all for your 2 consideration. 3 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 4 Actually, there is one additional 5 representative from the Long Beach City 6 Council, Steven Neal. 7 STATEMENT OF MR. LIVINGSTON 8 MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you for giving 9 me this opportunity to speak. I'm here 10 representing Council Member Steven Neal, City 11 of Long Beach. My name is Floyd Livingston. 12 He is not able to be here, but asked me to 13 read a letter in support. {Reading.} 14 I'm writing to express my support for the 15 fair and inclusive regulatory process currently 16 underway for the proposed restart and operation of 17 SONGS Unit 2. 18 As a local elected official representing the 19 Ninth District City Council in the City of Long Beach, 20 I strongly believe that maintaining a public and 21 transparent regulatory process is vital for the quick 22 restart of SONGS. In addition to having providing 23 decades of safe, emission-free electricity in Southern 24 California, SONGS has also been a major source of 25 well-paying jobs for highly skilled workers, creating 26 a solid middle class livelihood for families 27 throughout the region. 28 Not only does SONGS employ hundreds of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 38 1 people directly, SONGS also employs hundreds more 2 indirectly through companies that provide goods and 3 services for the plant -- to the plant. 4 Nuclear baseload electricity has a lower 5 production cost than coal or natural gas, helping 6 reduce the price of electricity. SONGS's baseload 7 electricity cannot be duplicated by other clean power 8 facilities such as wind or solar farms which are not 9 able to constantly run or produce equivalent levels of 10 power or voltage support. 11 Thank you for taking into consideration not 12 only safety and the environment, but also quality of 13 jobs and the cost of electricity to consumers as you 14 review this important information and important issues 15 facing Southern California. 16 I will leave my contact information with 17 your staff, and I will be happy to answer any 18 questions. Thank you. 19 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 20 Gia Ly from the City of Westminster, 21 Commissioner, followed by a representative from 22 Assembly Member Majority Leader Toni Atkins. 23 STATEMENT OF MS. LY 24 MS. LY: Hello. Thank you for having 25 me here. Hello, everybody. My name is Gia 26 Ly, and I serve in several capacities. I am 27 the City of -- Commissioner at the City of 28 Westminster in the Community Services and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 39 1 Recreation. I also am a resident and 2 business owner in the same city. On the 3 other hand, in the community capacity I also 4 serve as the chair-elect of the 5 Vietnamese-American Chamber of Commerce, 6 which has been established since 1985, and 7 representing 1500 businesses that are our 8 members in the US, but with the majority in 9 Orange County. 10 I am here today to express support 11 for a fair and inclusive regulatory process 12 currently underway for the proposed restart 13 and operation of the San Onofre Nuclear 14 Generation Station Unit 2. And from a 15 resident and business standpoint, I 16 understand that with the growing electricity 17 demand, businesses in California will need 18 even more clean, reliable and efficient 19 electricity to keep running without 20 interruption day and night. And I -- as a 21 business owner, it is a business run and 22 operated as well. So I am having hands-on 23 experience and operations of the business. 24 And I am very concerned about the safety of 25 the community as a resident, as well. 26 And I understand that the California 27 economy is facing a tough uphill climb of the 28 recession. It is no surprise that companies PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 40 1 have been leaving California in search of 2 lower costs of doing business. And I 3 understand that nuclear power is one of the 4 lower costs producer of baseload electricity 5 and has a lower production cost than coal or 6 natural gas, which helps reduce the price of 7 electricity for businesses. 8 And the electricity bill is one of the 9 highest that we have in our industry, especially with 10 the refrigeration and lighting and everything else 11 that we have to deal with on a daily basis. And with 12 current prices of natural gas that account for the 13 rise in electricity production, it is important to 14 maintain a diverse energy mix that will dampen any 15 swings in fuel prices and the availability of any 16 single energy source. 17 And in addition, I also had one-on-one 18 meeting with the Southern California Edison management 19 in the business division at their plant in Santa Ana 20 on November 3rd, 2012. I have seen that SCE, Southern 21 California Edison, has been committed to supporting 22 local businesses to raise awareness about the 23 environment. They have been promptly responding to 24 inquiries about the plant and educating residents on 25 the benefits of nuclear energy with online and 26 in-person information about a plan and, you know, with 27 the information booth, exhibits, staffed by San Onofre 28 subject matter experts focusing on various areas of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 41 1 the plant, including emergency planning, steam 2 generators, safety and community partnership. 3 Therefore, I am here again today to express 4 my concern and support for the restart of Unit 2. 5 Thank you so much for your time. 6 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Our last 7 elected speaker -- because I promised to move 8 to individual representatives of the public 9 by 3 o'clock -- so Deanna -- 10 MS. SPEHN: Spehn. 11 ALJ DARLING: Spehn. Thank you. 12 STATEMENT OF MS. SPEHN 13 MS. SPEHN: I am Deanna Spehn, policy 14 director for State Assembly Majority Leader 15 Toni Atkins. You should have a copy of my 16 letter. {Reading.} 17 The ongoing shutdown of the San Onofre 18 Nuclear Generation Station, and the resulting effects 19 on the provision of safe and reliable electric service 20 at just and reasonable rates are a significant concern 21 to the millions of Southern California residents whose 22 monthly energy bills have become the deep pockets of 23 SONGS. Since January 2012, ratepayers have paid 24 Edison and SDG&E for return on investment of operation 25 and maintenance costs for non-functioning units at a 26 cost of 54 million per month. 27 In 2012, Edison customers paid 739 million, 28 and SDG&E customers paid 253 million. And in 2013, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 42 1 customers continue to pay at the same level. The 2 shutdown of SONGS occurred on January 31st, 2012. 3 Of critical importance is a full and 4 complete assessment of what costs, if any, are 5 appropriate for recovery from ratepayers. I join with 6 the Division of Ratepayer Advocates in requesting that 7 SONGS immediately be removed from the rate base for 8 Edison and SDG&E. When Units 2 and 3 went offline in 9 January 2012, SONGS stopped generating electricity and 10 has not been providing any ongoing benefit to 11 customers. 12 Of equal importance is the safety and 13 well-being of the more than 8 million residents and 14 those who work at SONGS whose health would be affected 15 if there were less than adequate safety considerations 16 by Edison and SDG&E. The PUC should expand the 17 economic evaluation of SONGS to include enhanced 18 safety plans and a complete analysis of the cost of 19 SONGS operations, including seismic studies, complying 20 with state mandated elimination of once through 21 cooling plants and managing the long-term storage of 22 spent uranium on site. 23 The current license ends in 2022. With less 24 than ten years left, the PUC has the opportunity to 25 provide the public with a complete assessment of the 26 operations and maintenance costs for SONGS and 27 potential upgrades to meet seismic safety standards. 28 A transparent and comprehensive PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 43 1 investigation will help restore public confidence and 2 the state's ability and willingness to be fully 3 accountable to ratepayers on the issues of safety and 4 the reliability of SONGS. I look forward to the May 5 13th through 17th evidentiary hearings. 6 Finally, in 2007 over 500,000 San Diego 7 County residents were forced to evacuate as 8 fast-moving wildfires swept through the region. Up 9 until then, no one had anticipated the need to order 10 the evacuation of so many people with such little 11 notice. Now is the time for both San Diego and Orange 12 Counties to adopt comprehensive emergency preparedness 13 plans should there be a life-threatening and/or 14 health-threatening incident at SONGS. 15 Warmly, Toni Atkins, Majority Leader, 16 78th District. 17 Thank you very much for your time today. 18 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DARLING: Okay. I'm going to call 21 out the names of the first five individuals 22 on our speaker list. If you would come up 23 and take five seats to my far right, and the 24 public advisor staff will help get you up to 25 the microphone. Our public advisor staff is 26 also going to give you a one-minute warning 27 for your three minutes so you can wrap up 28 your thoughts. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 44 1 Steve Adams, Jackson Mueller, Ray 2 Lutz, Diane Moss, and Grace VanThillo. 3 If I mispronounced anyone's name, I'm sorry, 4 please correct it for me when you come up. 5 Mr. Adams. 6 STATEMENT OF MR. ADAMS 7 MR. ADAMS: You got mine right. Thank 8 you. Your Honor, Commissioner, thank you for 9 the opportunity to speak. 10 I'm a local businessman. I've been in the 11 community for most of my life. I am within that 12 10-mile radius of SONGS. We, the people of Southern 13 California, have grown accustomed to consistent, 14 reliable power to light our homes, to run our 15 businesses and to protect our health and welfare. We 16 don't want brownouts or blackouts or inconsistent 17 electricity. It's dangerous, and it's costly and 18 damaging to our equipment and our businesses, and it 19 disrupts our lives. 20 SONGS has provided a necessary base for our 21 electrical grid and consistent clean power to our 22 homes and businesses since 1968. Hundreds of billions 23 of kilowatt hours have been produced. Southern 24 California Edison has run the facility professionally, 25 with safety being their primary concern in compliance, 26 with renewable energy requirements a major factor. 27 SCE has shown good stewardship through the 28 years of upgrading and improving the facilities at San PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 45 1 Onofre. The nuclear industry has become safer every 2 year, as we learn from the experiences around us. We 3 have bright students and universities all over this 4 country in nuclear engineering who are learning to 5 improve our use of nuclear power as a safe and 6 abundant power source. Nuclear provides more than a 7 third of the renewable energy in the state. 8 There is a cost to providing consistent, 9 clean energy. Upgrades, renovations, improvements 10 cost real money. Who pays for that is what you will 11 decide. My hope is that you will allow SCE to finish 12 their process with the NRC and fairly determine how to 13 allocate those costs of this shutdown and the need for 14 alternative, more expensive energy. We simply can't 15 allow emotional minorities to impede the thorough and 16 rigorous process that you are in the middle of right 17 now. 18 Thank you. 19 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Mr. Mueller? 20 STATEMENT OF MR. MUELLER 21 MR. MUELLER: Commissioner Florio, 22 Administrative Law Judge Darling, my name is 23 Jackson Mueller, a resident of Orange County. 24 My expertise as an energy consultant is in 25 energy pricing. I represent a number of very 26 large consumers of energy in California and 27 around the world, specifically here within 28 Southern California, TABC, which you would PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 46 1 know as Toyota Auto Body Company, and JM 2 Eagle, which is the world's largest 3 manufacturer of plastic pipe. 4 Given due respect for safety, 5 environmental responsibility, licensing and 6 public responsibility, the California PUC, as 7 well as the Federal Energy Regulatory 8 Commission, will be looking at cost of 9 repairing, insurance opportunities, 10 replacement power, long-term transition 11 meaning long-term requirements of power, 12 considering what ultimately is done with the 13 SONGS plant, and certainly the community 14 involvement in assessing the process. 15 In my energy consulting business 16 which includes Europe, which is about 17 65 percent nuclear power, I find that my very 18 large energy consumers often have very high 19 levels of interest in the cost of energy, 20 certainly very energy intensive manufacturing 21 businesses. And while we talk somewhat 22 calmly about the potential process and all 23 the steps that might be appropriate to look 24 at what has happened at SONGS, what sort of 25 things might be done over the longer term, 26 what's the most responsible thing to do, the 27 market, which I deal with very, very 28 actively, really looks at things a lot more PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 47 1 quickly than that. And the market right now, 2 if you take a look at day-ahead electricity 3 prices, right now the price for Southern 4 California is about $45 a megawatt hour; 5 whereas, the price in Northern California -- 6 and, yes, there is a nuclear power plant 7 there at my alma mater, PG&E -- the price in 8 Northern California is about $35 a megawatt 9 hour. 10 So I encourage you and certainly others who 11 will participate in this process on behalf of my 12 clients to have a thorough review, look at cost 13 responsibility, supply reliability, greenhouse gas 14 emissions, and other considerations for a long-term 15 supply. 16 The market has already reacted to the 17 uncertainty that exists right here. So the more that 18 you can add certainty to the process and due 19 diligence, I think we all will benefit. 20 Thank you. 21 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 22 Mr. Lutz? 23 STATEMENT OF MR. LUTZ 24 MR. LUTZ: Thank you very much. My 25 name is Ray Lutz. I am a resident from San 26 Diego County area. And I do some activism 27 through a group called citizensoversight.org. 28 Now, I understand the CPUC and other plants, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 48 1 non-nuclear plants, is responsible for both 2 safety and financial matters. However, in 3 the nuclear plants you split the 4 responsibility with the NRC. And so because 5 of the split, it brings up the chance that 6 things will fall through the crack or there 7 will be finger pointing about whose 8 responsibility it is. 9 Of course, we know that NRC is about 10 safety. And I talked to them about this 11 nuclear -- the steam generator disaster, and 12 they said it was a success story because they 13 were able to shut the plant down successfully 14 without any problem. And so all of their 15 safety systems worked correctly. 16 It's not their concern that we lost a 17 billion dollars. I's not their concern that the steam 18 generators don't work. That's your problem. You guys 19 started this project in 2005 with a whole bunch of 20 assumptions about these steam generators would be 21 great. Almost all of that has turned out to be false. 22 And you have almost no oversight. 23 And I understand Edison hasn't even provided 24 any feedback about whether they spent the money right. 25 Why aren't you overseeing this? That's what I would 26 like to know. Why is the CPUC asleep at the wheel 27 until a disaster happens? And you're behind about two 28 years about asking them for what they did. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 49 1 Now, in 2005, I read the decision at that 2 time, and there was a whole bunch of findings. And 3 number 153 says -- and this is in response to the 4 model that you have there, that this model -- this 5 financial model shows that you should not run this 6 plant with only one unit in operation. Of course, at 7 that time Edison wanted to rush the project into place 8 because they like these big projects. They make a lot 9 of money on them. So they wanted to not live out the 10 life of those old steam generators. As was the case 11 from SDG&E, they said live it out. And Edison said, 12 no, we want to rush it into place. 13 And your finding was that it's not 14 financially viable to run the plant with only one unit 15 in operation. So why do you have to spend years or 16 months reviewing this when you already have a finding? 17 You've already decided that you can't financially 18 viably run this plant with only one unit. And that 19 was with the unit that was in operation still working 20 at capacity. 21 Shut it down now. You've already decided 22 that you can't run this financially viably. Now is 23 the time. You know, a lot of people say it's green 24 energy. It's not. Anybody should research this that 25 comes up here and says it's green energy, wrong. All 26 the way through mining, all the way to waste disposal, 27 it's a mess. It's not cost effective. Obviously, 28 it's not reliable. They have to have other plants in PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 50 1 the process in order to cover for nuclear power 2 because of all the refueling steps. 3 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 4 MR. LUTZ: Now is the time to shut it 5 down. 6 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 7 Diane Moss will be next. 8 I would like to call to the front of the 9 room Bryan Starr, Heidi Larkin-Reed, Scott 10 Dutenhoefer, Devin Dwyer and Ed Munson. 11 Miss Moss. 12 STATEMENT OF MS. MOSS 13 MS. MOSS: Hello. I'm Diane Moss. I 14 represent the Friends of the Earth, a 15 non-profit public interest group with members 16 throughout Southern California. 17 Friends of the Earth has published four 18 expert technical reports on the San Onofre Nuclear 19 Generation Station over the past year, as you probably 20 know. And, as you also know, most likely were 21 intervenors in the OII proceeding this Commission 22 instituted in the Fall of 2012. 23 Just as background, Friends of the Earth 24 also has two actions initiated before the NRC, 25 claiming that Edison needs a license amendment before 26 going ahead with their dangerous experimental restart 27 plan. These actions before the NRC have been briefed 28 and we are waiting decisions. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 51 1 Friends of the Earth greatly appreciates the 2 Commission taking the time to hear public officials 3 and concerned members of the public. If Friends of 4 the Earth could leave you with just one thought this 5 afternoon, it is the urgent need for the earliest 6 possible decision to be reached on whether or not 7 Edison acted prudently in installing and operating 8 steam generators of apparently defective design at the 9 San Onofre reactor. 10 Such a decision will decide the fundamental 11 issue as to whether or not any additional funds should 12 be spent on this aging and crippled plant, and what is 13 most cost effective for the consumers. Edison's 14 customers, the Edison company itself and the 15 reliability of the power supply will all benefit from 16 the earliest possible conclusion of these issues by 17 the Commission. 18 Thank you. 19 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Grace 20 VanThillo. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. VAN THILLO 22 MS. VAN THILLO: Hello. I'm a San 23 Clemente resident and a SDG&E ratepayer. And 24 using common sense, we ratepayers should not 25 be paying hundreds of millions of dollars for 26 Edison's mistakes, the lengthy inspections, 27 the regulatory costs and the replacement 28 power costs because of a defective steam PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 52 1 generator design and fabrication. In fact, 2 ratepayers deserve refunds for hundreds of 3 millions of dollars that we've already paid 4 for. 5 (Audience clapping.) 6 MS. VAN THILLO: New revelations 7 from the ongoing investigations reinforce 8 that San Onofre nuclear plant is neither cost 9 effective nor is it a reliable source of 10 California's power. With climbing costs, 11 please, Your Honor, the CPUC must put the 12 brakes on. We're depending on the CPUC to 13 keep the plant closed and cut our ratepayer 14 losses. San Onofre, in fact, must be 15 decommissioned, and invest any saved funds in 16 our state and what the governor wants, a 17 renewable energy economy. Ratepayers have 18 already paid $3 billion into the 19 decommissioning trust fund which should be 20 used. 21 Edison's recent outreach video to 22 all city managers about grid reliability 23 really doesn't reflect the whole picture of 24 the ISO and the Energy Commission. In fact, 25 the California Energy Commission has just 26 reopened its technical assistance program, 27 energy partnership program, innovative 28 technologies and energy efficiency to help PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 53 1 civic and business ratepayers save energy and 2 efficiency and to increase Southern 3 California jobs. 4 Hopefully, also, our state attorney general 5 is also dealing with JP Morgan to assure that the 6 synchronous condensers at Huntington Beach will be in 7 operation, all to support grid reliability. 8 CPUC's Energy Division Director Edward 9 Randolph has said recently the costs for solar are 10 going down and the market is heading to 11 self-sufficiency. We already have 1,066 megawatts or 12 enough output to -- for two conventional power plants 13 and one old nuclear reactor. Bloomberg News and 14 SunEdison in India even says that by 2022, they're 15 going to have 20,000 megawatts of solar. We can do 16 that here in California and the western states. 17 Keep San Onofre nuclear plant closed. It's 18 costly, it's defective, and it's a dangerous 19 non-emission free nuclear energy cycle. Thank you. 20 (Audience clapping.) 21 STATEMENT OF MR. STARR 22 MR. STARR: Good afternoon, 23 Commissioner Florio and your Honor. My 24 name's Bryan Starr, senior vice president for 25 the Orange County Business Council. The 26 council represents 250 of Southern 27 California's largest businesses employing 28 over a quarter million men and women here in PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 54 1 the region, and 2 million globally. 2 Orange County is leading California's 3 economy in terms of recovery and Orange County enjoys 4 the lowest unemployment in the state and continues to 5 power California's job growth. All good news. 6 However, this recovery is fragile, and any 7 number of occurrences can easily reverse our course. 8 Reliable power is critical infrastructure that must be 9 ensured for our residents and businesses. A loss of 10 reliable power will be devastating to Southern 11 California's economy. Increased costs due to 12 limited supply of reliable power will also have 13 serious negative impacts. 14 So this begs the question: If not SONGS, 15 then what? If San Onofre is not restarted, what are 16 the alternative sources of energy that can 17 sufficiently power -- provide power to SCE customers 18 immediately? Business and industry are extremely 19 concerned about our ability to keep the lights on. 20 The question of how to fully power our region must be 21 answered. Broad statements about alternative sources 22 of energy not do. 23 On behalf of the business community in 24 Orange County I respectfully ask the question: Is the 25 CPUC or any other state body working on contingency 26 plans for this summer? Our region must have immediate 27 certainty when it comes to how to keep the lights on 28 now and in the future. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 55 1 Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Just in answer to 3 your question, ever since the plant first 4 went down, the governor's office has had a 5 multi-agency task force. They worked to get 6 the Huntington Beach units back on last 7 summer, do a number of transmission fixes. 8 They're working on the synchronous condenser 9 conversion that was mentioned earlier. A lot 10 is being done. 11 We're, you know, unfortunately, in something 12 of a crisis atmosphere that hasn't been as transparent 13 as we would like, but I'm hoping to launch a 14 contingency planning proceeding in the next couple of 15 months. We now have a study from the independent 16 system operators, so we will be looking at that as a 17 contingency plan and what we can do. 18 And if we don't have the plant this summer, 19 I'm sure you and your members will be hearing from 20 Edison about new programs to help manage the load when 21 the weather gets hot or we have fires under 22 transmission lines. So I look forward to working with 23 you. 24 MR. STARR: Thank you, Commissioner. 25 The business community stands ready to act 26 as a resource in that effort. Thank you. 27 ALJ DARLING: Heidi Larkin-Reed. 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 56 1 STATEMENT OF MS. LARKIN-REED 2 MS. LARKIN-REED: Good afternoon, your 3 Honor and Commissioner. My name is Heidi 4 Larkin-Reed. I am the CEO of the Orange 5 Chamber of Commerce. I am also a former 6 mayor of Apple Valley and a resident of 7 Mission Viejo. 8 And my question is about public engagement 9 and timing. We all saw concerns, as just expressed, 10 by the Orange County Business Council of our members. 11 We would like to see this process moved along as 12 quickly as possible so that our business community 13 would have reliable power. We would also like to see 14 what other opportunities for input for our business 15 community and also key milestones that are a part of 16 this process. And we would hope that this process 17 would take months and not years. We would like to get 18 our reliable energy up and running again, up to and 19 including SONGS. 20 Thank you. 21 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 22 Scott Dutenhoefer. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. DUTENHOEFER 24 MR. DUTENHOEFER: Scott Dutenhoefer 25 with the Orange Chamber of Commerce, chairman 26 of the board, representing almost 500 27 businesses, including very large businesses, 28 hospitals, and other manufacturing PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 57 1 facilities. And I'm a business owner myself. 2 I just wanted to applaud your efforts in this 3 opportunity that you have given the public to 4 speak to this issue. As you can tell, 5 there's been divergent views on this, but 6 this is healthy. This is a healthy 7 discussion of the issues. And with your 8 efforts, you know, literally thousands of 9 people have been able to make their voices 10 heard. And I believe this is really a 11 healthy, healthy thing. It's very vital for 12 all parties to the issue to be heard. So I 13 just want to applaud your efforts today. 14 Thank you. 15 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 16 Mr. Dwyer next. And then the following 17 speakers can come forward: Patricia Borchmann, Joe 18 Holtzman, Emil Bereczky, Mindy Spatt, and Harvey Eder. 19 All right. So Mr. Dwyer. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. DWYER 21 MR. DWYER: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor 22 and Commissioner, for allowing me to speak. 23 My name is Devin Dwyer. I am a former 24 council member for the City of Huntington Beach. I 25 just came off last December. As a citizen of 26 Huntington Beach, you can imagine I'm quite interested 27 in this particular issue. 28 I know we came within 50 megawatts of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 58 1 actually having brownouts this last summer, and I know 2 eight -- it takes 18 hours to get up and running 3 because it is an old steam generator. And my 4 understanding is that the new turbine generators that 5 they plan to bring in probably won't be up until about 6 2020. 7 So I'm really here as an advocate of a 8 reliable energy grid. I own a construction company. 9 And when we were having the brownouts in 2003, my 10 company was specifically putting generators in for 11 companies in the South Bay area -- South Bay meaning 12 down here near LA, not San Francisco. And some of the 13 companies, probably half of the companies, after we 14 showed them what it would cost, chose to actually move 15 out of state. So I would hate to see us get into that 16 same situation here in the Orange County area. As you 17 heard from Bryan Starr, we're kind of the rising star 18 out of the State of California coming out of this 19 recession. 20 So it is my hope that we can come to an 21 early decision on this. And part of a reliable grid, 22 I think SONGS is part of that reliability as having 23 that generation and also bringing up these new 24 turbines over time. But I think in the short term -- 25 and if we were to try and build an electric plant, and 26 I know this through development, anywhere built along 27 the coast here, it will take years and years and years 28 to get it through the process. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 59 1 So I appreciate your allowing me to come up 2 here and speak to you. And have a good afternoon. 3 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 4 Mr. Munson? 5 STATEMENT OF MR. MUNSON 6 MR. MUNSON: Members of the Commission, 7 thank you for allowing us to speak today. 8 We are in full agreement of the use of 9 nuclear power. It is vital that we maintain a 10 consistent and uninterrupted power source. And the 11 San Onofre power plant is vital to the continuity of 12 our business communities. If our businesses are 13 inconvenienced, our residents suffer as well. 14 Our mission is to help build and maintain 15 the best possible economic climate, and that includes 16 being an advocate for our strategic partners who 17 deliver convenience in a safe, economical and timely 18 manner. We have every confidence in the Southern 19 California Edison Company, as well as the NRC and the 20 PUC, in making valued decisions to help our 21 communities be the best they can be. 22 Thank you. 23 ALJ DARLING: Miss Borchmann? 24 STATEMENT OF MS. BORCHMANN 25 MS. BORCHMANN: Thank you. My name is 26 Patricia Borchmann. I am a resident of the 27 City of Escondido in San Diego County. 28 I want to thank the Commission for holding a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 60 1 hearing here in Orange County near the impacted 2 community. And I am very happy to hear you will also 3 be having hearings in San Diego. So thank you. 4 It's an observation because the NRC has 5 recently been holding some hearings in Maryland -- 6 ALJ DARLING: Can I ask you to speak 7 closer to the microphone so others can hear 8 you. 9 MS. BORCHMANN: Okay. My observation 10 is based on, you know, the fact that the 11 Nuclear Regulatory Commission has recently 12 been holding a series of important hearings 13 regarding the San Onofre case with hearings 14 held in Maryland. So, you know, it's so far 15 away that impacted citizens cannot 16 realistically, you know, play an active role. 17 So I really appreciate your effort to 18 interact directly with the public. 19 I've heard a lot of businesses and 20 representatives from chambers of commerce, 21 you know, reflect their concerns about the 22 risk of unreliability of, you know, power 23 sources. And, you know, that's 24 understandable. However, I think that it's 25 important that the PUC carefully consider, 26 you know, actually what the risks and actual 27 economic costs, which I don't think have been 28 factored into this whole equation, about what PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 61 1 if there were a, you know, Fukushima-type 2 disaster. You know, all these estimates of, 3 you know, if all our power sources were 4 interrupted for, you know -- if we don't 5 start Unit 2, you know, we'll be devastated. 6 You know, I don't think so. 7 And, you know, the CPUC's already aware that 8 the ISO is projecting, you know, ways to operate a 9 reliable power system to generate power for Southern 10 California without San Onofre. They're having to do 11 that already. And I think that that's a very central 12 necessity. 13 Your role is to act in the public interests, 14 as you know and, you know, to guarantee the ratepayers 15 are provided with reliable, long-term -- short and 16 long-term reliable sources of service. And I think 17 that the money that is considering being spent to 18 restart Unit 2 could easily be put to a more 19 productive, more positive use by allocating it instead 20 to renewables and a more immediate transition to a -- 21 the future source of power. Thank you. 22 (Audience clapping.) 23 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 24 Mr. Holtzman? 25 STATEMENT OF MR. HOLTZMAN 26 MR. HOLTZMAN: Yes. My name is Joel 27 Holtzman. I live in Mission Viejo, 28 16.8 miles from San Onofre. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 62 1 Any discussion of SONGS has to talk about 2 reliability and costs. SONGS has not been reliable. 3 I counted 54 times in the last 84 months that SONGS 4 has either been up or down. So it's not reliable. 5 It's been off for the last year. We didn't miss it. 6 We had the hottest summer in Southern California in 7 the last three months of the year than we have had. 8 So check that out. 9 As to the evacuations, I live in Mission 10 Viejo. I have been part of the Saddleback Unified 11 School District's facility committee. I know that the 12 Capistrano Unified School District has told us they 13 have to borrow our buses to evacuate their kids. Do 14 you think they're gong to be able to get down 16 to 15 17 miles to take kids out of there? No way. Not on 16 Southern California roads if there is an emergency. 17 It's not going to happen. 18 Now, we talked about reliability. I talked 19 about that. 20 Number two, costs. Oklahoma Power and Gas, 21 where I have another one of my businesses, charges me 22 6.7 cents per kilowatt hour. The minimum kilowatt 23 hour cost here in Southern California Edison is 13.1 24 cents at the Tier 1 level. Okay? That's twice the 25 rate. If you just go up to Anaheim, which is a 26 municipal district, they're one-third less. Edison is 27 not cheap. 28 As far as green, nuclear is not green. From PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 63 1 the mining, the processing, the transportation and the 2 disposal, it's not green. We are leaving a legacy of 3 500 million years for our children to deal with. And 4 they've got every bit of the nuclear waste that's ever 5 been produced sitting down there right now. 6 Now, throughout the world there is a hundred 7 gigawatts, a hundred gigawatts, of solar power; 32 of 8 that hundred gigawatts is in Germany; 7.5 of the 9 gigawatts is in the United States. We can do it. 10 Germany has a plan by 2030 to be off of nuclear, and 11 they're going to be going with renewables. 12 It's time to change. And also to wrap up, 13 I've got document after document here of Edison's 14 deceitfulness, from falsified customer satisfaction 15 surveys, from falsifying health and safety issues, on 16 and on and on it goes. Here it is. If you would like 17 copies of it, I'll make you copies of it. 18 My old basketball coach used to tell me 19 "watch the belly button. The belly button can't go 20 left or right. If you keep your eye on the belly 21 button, you're going to watch them." 22 Well, keep your eye on Edison's belly 23 button, instead of their mouth. 24 (Audience clapping.) 25 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 26 Mr. Bereczky. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. BERECZKY 28 MR. BERECZKY: I am Emil Bereczky, a PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 64 1 registered professional engineer in 2 California in two different disciplines, and 3 I have at least 50 years of what I believe is 4 relevant experience. 5 My wife and I are attending these meetings 6 to supported Edison in getting approval to start up 7 their plant -- or both plants as soon as practical. 8 The power is needed. The power these plants could 9 produce would reduce the chance of us facing brownouts 10 and blackouts in the near future. 11 In order to add credibility to ourselves and 12 our position, we would like to tell you that our home 13 is fairly close. It's in Placencia, which is, for 14 Mr. Florio's benefit, is adjacent to Yorba Linda. And 15 we have three married sons: One is East Anaheim, one 16 in Irvine, and one in Ladera Ranch. So should any 17 disaster occur, we could immediately be affected. 18 We would also like to note that no one, as 19 far as we know, in the history of nuclear power 20 generation in the United States have been killed by 21 radiation. 22 (Audience comments.) 23 ALJ DARLING: Please contain your 24 remarks until when you have an opportunity in 25 front of the podium. And give the speaker 26 respect. We would like to hear his comments, 27 just as we would like to hear everyone's 28 comments. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 65 1 Please proceed. 2 MR. BERECZKY: And we would like to add 3 that as far as we know, the subject plant's 4 safety and radiation detection systems 5 worked, and no one inside the plant, much 6 less outside the plant, have been hurt by 7 radiation or exposures or any other reason. 8 Now, it has been reported that the 9 tube damage was due to vibration which is a 10 design error. It is not specific to nuclear 11 power plants. Tube vibration could be 12 petroleum refineries, fertilizer plants, or 13 even in a Hershey Chocolate Kiss 14 manufacturing plant. It is a design issue. 15 The single issue opponents of the plant 16 restart, and nuclear power I might add, should get 17 real -- realistic, put their emotions aside. Get out 18 of the way. They have no credible issue. It's a 19 song. As a show of sincerity -- 20 (Audience comments.) 21 ALJ DARLING: Excuse me. I'm giving 22 him an extra few seconds because his time is 23 interrupted, as it is again. So I'm going to 24 give you about 30 seconds to wrap up. 25 MR. BERECZKY: That's enough. As a 26 show of sincerity and your good faith, the 27 single issue opponents should volunteer to 28 have Edison disconnect their power supply PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 66 1 whenever an electric shortage is predicted. 2 With the new smart meters, this should be 3 easy to accomplish. We request all 4 regulatory agencies to approve immediate 5 plant start-up. Thank you. 6 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. All right. 7 (Audience clapping.) 8 ALJ DARLING: The next speaker will be 9 Mindy Spatt. And the next five speakers to 10 come forward will be Patti Davis, Steven 11 Rose, Ruben Franco, Deanna -- oh, Deanna 12 spoke. Mel Kernahan and Armida Brashears. 13 (Audience comments.) 14 STATEMENT OF MS. SPATT 15 MS. SPATT: Thank you. TURN, The 16 Utility Reform Network, is a party in this 17 case and we appreciate this opportunity to 18 address the Commission and the public. 19 TURN has been representing California 20 consumers for 40 years. And our main goals are 21 affordable bills and accountable utilities, and those 22 are the two reasons we are here today. 23 Accountable utilities, that means 24 accountable for their mistakes, and Edison made a 25 colossal one, a $665 million mistake that right now 26 customers are on the hook for. 27 Edison -- Edison's steam tubes are 28 defective. That's Edison's problem. We are demanding PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 67 1 immediate refunds for customers for Edison's mistakes. 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 MS. SPATT: The lives and costs of 4 replacement and power are an unfortunate 5 result of those mistakes. And, once again, 6 those are mistakes that Edison should be 7 health accountable for. Utility companies 8 must pay for their mistakes out of profits, 9 not out of rates. 10 And speaking of profits, everyone should be 11 aware that Edison is actually asking for profits as 12 well as costs of these defective steam tubes. 13 Customers should not have to pay a single 14 penny for costs incurred to own an inoperable nuclear 15 plant. 16 In addition, we would be very interested in 17 hearing from the other speakers how many of them have 18 received money from Edison in its community grant 19 program. 20 Thank you very much. 21 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 22 Mr. Harvey Eder. 23 STATEMENT OF MR. EDER 24 MR. EDER: Good afternoon. My name is 25 Harvey Eder. 26 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: It's been a long 27 time, Mr. Eder. 28 MR. EDER: Yeah, it's been a long time. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 68 1 We go back to TURN days with Sylvia Seagull, 2 when I was an expert witness for TURN in some 3 of the first solar hearings that were held, 4 and Commissioner Florio was an attorney with 5 TURN. 6 I've been working in solar energy 7 for close 40 to years. If this power plant 8 is not shut down and decommissioned, I'll 9 feel like I was in the desert for 40 years. 10 But the time has come now to use and to 11 implement solar energy. 12 (Audience clapping.) 13 MR. EDER: I'm with the Public Solar 14 Power Coalition. The $600 million that's 15 been overcharged here, as well as another 16 half a billion dollars that's -- that was not 17 used for energy efficiency should be put into 18 a fund -- you know, a half a billion here, a 19 half a billion there, pretty soon you're 20 talking no money -- it should be used to 21 start public solar power. 22 You have -- as other gentlemen pointed out, 23 it's about 20 to 30 percent less expensive if using 24 conventional power. You have the price of solar 25 coming down. It's come down about two-thirds in the 26 last three years for photo voltaics. The price of 27 money has gone down. Interest rates are at the lowest 28 almost they've ever been. And when financing solar, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 69 1 what's happening now is with photo voltaic systems, 2 third-party financing is coming in and people are 3 getting solar at less than what they're paying for 4 their electric utilities and they're saving money. 5 We're involved with litigation now with the 6 Air Pollution District to try to get them to implement 7 a solar conversion plan for their 2012 plant for the 8 South Coast District. 9 You have proceedings on storage under 10 Assembly Bill 2516, and it shows that we can use like 11 compressed air storage and underground, as well as 12 pump storage and other technologies. And you have 13 community choice aggregation hearings that you are 14 also involved with now. And these should all be used 15 and the money should be put into a fund and used for 16 public solar power conversion. 17 Thank you. 18 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 Miss Patti Davis. 21 STATEMENT OF MS. DAVIS 22 MS. DAVIS: Hi. Thank you, 23 Commissioner Florio and Judge Darling. My 24 name is Patti Davis. I am a mother of three 25 children. I live in San Clemente. I'm a 26 long-time resident there, now 12 years. And 27 I can tell you that as a mom, I am very 28 involved in the PTA, very involved in all PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 70 1 kinds of civic organizations and groups. I 2 feel that $54 million a month and counting of 3 ratepayer's money is not cost effective. 4 It's not cost-effective energy generation. 5 A nuclear power plant that has been down for 6 over a year, but still requires energy from the grid 7 to prevent a meltdown, that is not reliable energy. 8 Nuclear reactors that leak radiation is not safe 9 energy. 10 It appears, now, documents are coming out 11 leading us to believe that Edison knew about these 12 flawed designs before installing these steam 13 generators at the Unit 1 or Unit 2 and Unit 3. And 14 we're all waiting for that news. If that is correct, 15 that is a criminal act. And if it is, as Edison 16 states, when they say "we would not knowingly install 17 defective steam generators," that just points to 18 Edison being clueless. Either way, it's very bad. 19 And I am a mother that lives five miles away 20 from that nuclear power plant. I am depending on you 21 to be responsible to the public. It's the California 22 Public Utilities Commission. It is not the California 23 utility commission for the Edison or PG&E, it is for 24 the public. You need to represent us, me, my 25 children. Because I will tell you there is no safe 26 evacuation route. 27 All of the parents I speak to -- and I have 28 a lot of friends -- we all know, whether it's my PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 71 1 friends that are, you know, the volleyball moms, the 2 orchestra moms, the swim team moms, we all know -- you 3 ask any one of them: What would you do when the 4 sirens go off? They will tell you, "well, it's over." 5 They don't believe there is any safe evacuation route. 6 So I'm going to ask you to please make sure 7 that San Onofre be taken out of the ratepayer base 8 immediately, all costs be recovered. And I thank you 9 very much for your time. Thank you. 10 (Audience clapping.) 11 ALJ DARLING: Okay. We're going to 12 take two more speakers, and then we're going 13 to give our court reporter a break for about 14 ten minutes because she has been very 15 diligently taking down all your comments. 16 But we would like her to last throughout the 17 session. 18 So Mr. Rose and Mr. Franco, and then we will 19 take a ten-minute break. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. ROSE 21 MR. ROSE: Good afternoon. Steven 22 Rose, former mayor of the City of Culver 23 City. For your information, that's about 30 24 or 40 miles north of here. 25 As a mayor, the City of Culver City was the 26 first community in LA County to go all natural gas 27 buses. Our recycling leads the state. I guess you 28 can call me Earth friendly. I am also the 26-year PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 72 1 president of the Culver City Chamber of Commerce. 2 A reliable energy source is important for 3 not only business, but for the community. In case of 4 an emergency, our communications are based on reliable 5 electricity. If the city cannot have that, it has 6 nothing. I encourage you to review the facts, act on 7 the facts, and make a decision as soon as possible. 8 And thank you very much. 9 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 10 Mr. Franco? 11 STATEMENT OF MR. FRANCO 12 MR. FRANCO: Thank you, Your Honor, 13 thank you, Commissioner, for allowing us the 14 opportunity to speak here today. 15 My name is Ruben Franco. I am the president 16 and CEO of the Orange County Hispanic Chamber of 17 Commerce. We represent the interests of over 30,000 18 businesses, which small and large, which employ over 19 200,000 people here in Orange County. 20 I'm here to voice support of the safe 21 restart of SONGS. Our businesses are concerned with 22 reliable energy, efficient energy, and the negative 23 economic impact potential blackouts might have. Our 24 businesses rely on those for their jobs. And if SONGS 25 is not allowed to restart, we're not sure what's going 26 to happen. 27 The business community here in Orange County 28 wants to continue this dialogue on SONGS. And please PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 73 1 feel free to reach out to us in the Hispanic community 2 to talk about this important issue. 3 Thank you for your time. 4 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. We will now 5 take a ten-minute break and be back at 5 til 6 4. 7 We will start with Mel Kernahan, Armida 8 Brashears, John Kaloper, Floyd Livingston, and Rhonda 9 Shader. 10 We are off the record. 11 (Recess taken.) 12 ALJ DARLING: Would everyone please 13 take a seat. 14 All right. I would like to go back on the 15 record. 16 Our next speaker, Mel Kernahan. We want to 17 hear you. 18 STATEMENT OF MS. KERNAHAN 19 MS. KERNAHAN: All right. You know, 20 CPUC, I'm very grateful that you're here to 21 hear us. I'm one of the emotional minority 22 ratepayers. But, you know, the greatest 23 public utility we have is the sun and the 24 wind. I don't know where this nonsense came 25 from that nuclear is more reliable than solar 26 and wind. Can you tell me of a single year 27 in the history of California where the sun 28 didn't shine and the wind didn't blow? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 74 1 SONGS has been unable to provide any 2 electricity for 365 days during this outage. 3 There have been outages ever since the plant 4 was invented there. But I'm a captive Edison 5 customer. The rates we pay not only pay for 6 electric power, these rates provide Edison's 7 salaries, business expenses, performance 8 bonuses and a fortune in public relations 9 campaigns. Edison executives decide they're 10 worth millions in performance bonuses that we 11 must pay them whether or not their 12 performance is work a nickel. What a racket. 13 Edison should pay us ratepayers a 14 big performance bonus for not lynching them 15 for the lies and incompetence. Edison must 16 refund these bonuses and put that money in 17 the decommission fund. Refund our electric 18 rates for the year. 19 Edison, you broke it. You pay to 20 decommission it. You refund our rates paid in good 21 faith for power that you are incompetent to provide. 22 End this dangerous nuclear charade. 23 Thank you very much. 24 (Audience clapping.) 25 ALJ DARLING: Armida Brashears. 26 STATEMENT OF MS. BRASHEARS 27 MS. BRASHEARS: Good afternoon. Thank 28 you, Judge Darling and Commissioner Florio. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 75 1 I am Armida Brashears. I am a 77-year old 2 native of California. I am a 47-year 3 resident of Huntington Beach. I am a 4 grandmother and a great grandmother, and I 5 care about what kind of environment we are 6 going to be leaving for our great 7 grandchildren. 8 My primary concern is environmental 9 impact. That was supposed to be one of the 10 issues you are concerned with here. I am 11 concerned about the nuclear waste. We all 12 know about the radioactive waste that is 13 currently stored at Hanford, Washington, that 14 has been leaking into the soil and, 15 therefore, into the groundwater. And we 16 don't know how long it's been leaking. There 17 is radioactive waste at over 100 nuclear 18 power generators around the US, and we still 19 have no permanent storage. Nobody wants 20 radioactive waste in their backyard. 21 We all need clean, uncontaminated 22 water to drink. Our farmers need clean, 23 uncontaminated water to grow food, to raise 24 chickens, cows and pigs. 25 Germany, which is a very dynamic 26 economy in Europe, they have manufacturing. 27 They manufacture cars. They manufacture all 28 kinds of -- Siemens manufactures all kinds of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 76 1 electrical generators, machines, all kinds of 2 things. And they have a plan to depend 3 completely on renewables by 2030. If they 4 can do it, I think we can, too. 5 (Audience clapping.) 6 MS. BRASHEARS: I lived in Australia 7 on March 11th, which happens to be my 8 birthday, when the tsunami shut down the 9 Fukushima nuclear generator. They finally 10 acknowledged that the evacuation zone should 11 be 50-mile radius, not 10-mile. 12 There also was an earthquake in February of 13 that same year that seriously damaged Christ's Church 14 in New Zealand. That event prompted their municipal 15 government to establish a plan for distributed 16 generation of electricity because they couldn't rely 17 on their electrical grid. 18 So I think there's another place where we 19 need to put our emphasis on distributed generation of 20 electricity so that we're not slaves to the electric 21 grid. 22 Thank you very much. I hope you will think 23 of the citizens and your grandchildren, too. 24 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 25 (Off the record.) 26 ALJ DARLING: So Mr. John Kaloper, is 27 he here? 28 Mr. Livingston? Floyd Livingston? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 77 1 Okay. Let me call the next five. Rhonda 2 Shader, Douglas Hughes, Steven Rosansky, William 3 Steiner and Berton Moldow. 4 Starting with Miss Shader. 5 STATEMENT OF MS. SHADER 6 MS. SHADER: Thank you. I'm Rhonda 7 Shader, the chair of the Fullerton Chamber of 8 Commerce. I'm representing 650 businesses in 9 Orange County. These businesses spend 10 hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on 11 electricity. Because of the nature of the 12 circumstances that the SONGS facility was 13 shut down, we appreciate and agree with 14 efforts to recover the extra costs from the 15 shutdown from insurance and other sources 16 before passing the costs on to customers. 17 We also want the Commission to be 18 aware that for many years now, Edison has had 19 a representative in our community to provide 20 communication and to answer questions to both 21 our citizens and our businesses. We hope 22 that the SONGS facility will be safely 23 reinstated so that businesses in our county 24 can continue to have reliable and affordable 25 electricity. 26 Thank you. 27 ALJ DARLING: Can I see by a show of 28 hands if that sound was better than the prior PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 78 1 speaker? 2 Are you having trouble hearing in the back? 3 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: We hear 4 you well. We were having trouble hearing 5 her. 6 ALJ DARLING: You could not hear the 7 last speaker? Not as well? 8 Let's take a minute here. Off the record. 9 (Off the record.) 10 ALJ DARLING: Let's go back on the 11 record. 12 And, Mr. Hughes, please proceed. 13 STATEMENT OF MR. HUGHES 14 MR. HUGHES: Thank you, Commissioner, 15 Your Honor. And God bless America because 16 you and I can come up here and verse our 17 opinion. We're still a free people, and 18 thank God. 19 The reason I came here tonight, I 20 want to talk about the big one. Every year 21 this continent -- or I call California a 22 continent and, actually, it is. It is 23 supposed to move an inch. And if it doesn't, 24 then it just pushes against it and it's 25 trying to push it. And eventually, it's 26 going to give. And when that big one hits, 27 God help us. 28 Now, south of the border not too many years PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 79 1 ago, a year or two ago, we had an 8.5. The nuclear 2 plant here in San Onofre was built for a 7.5. Would 3 it be at that rate now? Three miles from it there is 4 a fault out in the ocean. Is that going to -- they 5 say, well, that fault is only a 7.5. They say. How 6 do they know? They don't. 7 We're gambling with life and disaster, a war 8 zone that you can't imagine. When that earthquake 9 hits -- and it's going to happen, only God knows 10 when -- it's just going to take everything and turn it 11 upside down. See my thumb? If that was nuclear waste 12 and it was laying in this room, we would all be dead 13 in a few minutes. And the nuclear waste is all the 14 way around the nuclear plant. It's that problem they 15 don't know what to do with it. 16 Now, with all the doctors degrees, the 17 engineers, the studies and everything they do, they 18 say we now, with new technology, we know what to do. 19 Well, they don't know what to do with the waste. 20 Inevitably they are gambling with your life and mine. 21 At 76, I am not really concerned that much 22 with my life. It's our young ones, our grandchildren. 23 We can't continue to roll. 24 If I had my choice, if I was in the power, I 25 would do this: I would right now start building a 26 natural gas plant right there where the nuclear plants 27 are, bring in a natural gas line to take care of it 28 and steam it. And just as soon as it's fired up, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 80 1 start telling Edison you got 90 days -- that's a 2 quarter of a year -- to take it all, with all your 3 geniuses and your billions and millions of dollars, 4 and figure out where to put it and get rid of it. And 5 they got a big problem because they don't know what to 6 do with it, but they need to get it out of our 7 backyard and save our state. It's time we get some 8 foresight into our future and think smart. 9 Thank you very much. 10 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 11 (Audience clapping.) 12 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Rosansky, Steven 13 Rosansky. 14 STATEMENT OF MR. ROSANSKY 15 MR. ROSANSKY: Thank you. Honorable 16 Chair and Commissioner Florio, my name is 17 Steven Rosansky, and I'm a former Newport 18 Beach city councilman and mayor, and the 19 current president and CEO of the Newport 20 Beach Chamber of Commerce. Thank you for the 21 opportunity to address you regarding the 22 current power down at the San Onofre Nuclear 23 Generation Station. 24 As a business owner and on behalf of 671 25 businesses that comprise the Newport Beach Chamber of 26 Commerce, I'm here to ask you to consider the safe 27 restart of the San Onofre plant. As businesses are 28 challenged by a stagnant economy and increases in all PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 81 1 types of costs, a reliable and clean source of 2 electrical energy at a reasonable price is essential 3 to the sustainability of the California economy. 4 Just the other night, President Obama 5 advocated for increasing the minimum wage. As of 6 January 1st, sales tax in California has risen. Last 7 week, Texas Governor Perry toured our state trying to 8 convince California companies to relocate to Texas 9 with the promise of lower taxes and lower operating 10 costs. Let's not add higher electrical rates to his 11 repertoire of reasons for businesses to exit this 12 state. 13 San Onofre is already here. It has been in 14 operation for almost four decades. Without it up and 15 running, we are forced to use old electrical 16 generation plants in Huntington Beach and Carlsbad 17 that pollute our environment and run on costly fossil 18 fuels. I don't think anyone is advocating doing 19 anything that would not be a hundred percent safe. 20 I think that we -- what we are advocating is 21 to have the state regulatory agencies working 22 cooperatively with Southern California Edison to 23 identify the problem, fix the problem, and get back to 24 generating the cheapest and cleanest energy we 25 possibly can. 26 Thank you. 27 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 28 Next speaker will be Mr. William Steiner, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 82 1 followed by -- let me call the next group of five. 2 There are a couple more speakers here. But Keith 3 Curry from -- mayor of Newport Beach, Gary Headrick, 4 Bruce Campbell, Randy Ziglar, and Bill Freeman. If 5 you would come forward, the public advisor staff will 6 assist you in getting your place at the microphone. 7 Mr. Steiner? 8 STATEMENT OF MR. STEINER 9 MR. STEINER: Thank you, Judge and 10 Commissioner. My name is William Steiner and 11 I am the former chairman of the Orange County 12 Board of Supervisors. And in that capacity, 13 we have many, many public hearings on all 14 sorts of public policy issues and often 15 involving contentious issues like this one. 16 And I did attend the NRC hearing down in 17 South County. And I learned over all those 18 years that there is a need for us to show 19 respect for people who have different 20 viewpoints, and we have many people with 21 different viewpoints today. 22 That said, I'm also Chairman of the 23 Board of the Community Foundation of Orange, 24 a parent of five growing children, have a 25 bunch of grandchildren, including 26 grandchildren that attend the Capistrano 27 Valley Unified School District schools. And 28 in that capacity, then, as far as a member of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 83 1 the community and as a parent and 2 grandparent, it's never been my interest to 3 place this community or my own family at 4 risk. 5 While I was on the board of supervisors for 6 six years, we had exercises, we called them the SONGS 7 exercises. We went out to the Loma Ridge emergency 8 command center every year and we gathered together for 9 emergency preparedness with regard to SONGS, involving 10 our sheriff's department, our Orange County fire 11 authority, and our health care agency, public works 12 staff, and so forth, and we placed a very high 13 priority on that exercise and took it very seriously. 14 Our experiences led us to believe that we 15 had an organization and systems in place to meet our 16 responsibilities to the public. Certainly, it was our 17 impression over those years that Edison also had a 18 corporate sense of responsibility and that the San 19 Onofre plant was a good neighbor. Based on those past 20 experiences that we had and a few future reassurances 21 which we felt were credible, I'm hopeful that there 22 can be a restoration of this important power source. 23 And I certainly appreciate the fact that you are 24 concerned about the interests of the ratepayers and 25 will consider those issues carefully. 26 Thank you very much. 27 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 28 Mr. Berton Moldow? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 84 1 STATEMENT OF MR. MOLDOW 2 MR. MOLDOW: Yes. Berton Moldow 3 from Laguna Woods. 4 And one thing I would like to ask is has the 5 committee -- or I would with like to see the 6 committee's hidden costs to San Onofre. I wonder if 7 you include the town's expenses of the towns around 8 the plant for the exercises that they have to perform. 9 I wonder if you consider the costs and the damage of 10 the ocean's ecology. I wonder if you consider the 11 cost that we're going to pay for the cancer studies 12 and, God forbid if they prove out, the liability that 13 would be paid. I understand we should be including 14 prolonged costs, slowly, but security that we maybe 15 have to pay over the next 200 years or more for that 16 fuel. Or the cost for the water towers that the Water 17 Commission is going to require by, what, 2022 now, at 18 the cost of $2.3 billion. 19 NRC Commissioners have testified before that 20 there is no guarantee against another Fukushima or 21 another Chernobyl. In fact, it will happen. We know 22 it will happen. And we know that that plant, like 23 Fukushima, sits on the ocean. It is sitting near 24 faults; that it has had equipment failures; they have 25 had design errors. We have the issue of terrorism. 26 And we know that that plant's safety record is the 27 worst safety record of all plants operating in the 28 United States. So we have no guarantees. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 85 1 Regarding, by the way, safety, and we rely 2 on the NRC for safety, we have seen a Commissioner -- 3 not a Commissioner, but one of the people that were 4 performing a study, admit to me that the NRC missed 5 this one; that there should have been a hearing, okay, 6 and a relicensing of that plant based upon what they 7 knew. 8 Business owners, I can appreciate, have some 9 concern, but they're missing the boat. They've lost 10 perspective because they, just as well as many other 11 people in this county, would become victims if 12 something happened. They can't, just like I can't, 13 buy any nuclear insurance to protect myself against 14 total wipeout and loss against such an event. 15 However, they can buy solar panels, just like I did, 16 free, and put it on their roofs or wherever they can 17 put them, and reduce -- actually get energy at lower 18 cost than they're paying the power company. 19 So there is a way in which they can indeed 20 buy their insurance. Just close San Onofre and go 21 toward alternative energies. 22 Thank you. 23 ALJ DARLING: Okay. The next speaker, 24 Mr. Mayor Keith Curry from Newport Beach. 25 STATEMENT OF MR. CURRY 26 MR. CURRY: Thank you, Judge Darling 27 and Commissioner Florio. My name is Keith 28 Curry. I'm the mayor of Newport Beach. I'm PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 86 1 here today speaking for myself. And, first 2 of all, welcome to Orange County. Safe and 3 reliable energy is essential to a functioning 4 economy. Most of us remember the 5 difficulties caused by the power outages 6 resulting from the energy crisis of the last 7 decade. We simply cannot afford, as a matter 8 of economic necessity, public safety or 9 employment recovery to have the reliability 10 of our energy supply compromised. 11 We were fortunate this summer that because 12 the AES facility in Huntington Beach was able to be 13 operated, we avoided a potential power outage. I 14 understand that the regulatory and other factors, this 15 option will not exist during the Summer of 2013. That 16 is why we must have a safe restart of the San Onofre 17 Nuclear Power Station. This facility supplies 10 18 percent of the total power for Southern California, 19 and has been providing save, clean power for more than 20 38 years. 21 I do not believe there are any realistic or 22 affordable options in the short run that will allow us 23 to ignore the important role that SONGS plays in the 24 regional energy picture. Southern California energy 25 rates are already among the highest in the nation, and 26 failure to utilize this long-standing asset can only 27 cause our rates to increase, further exacerbating our 28 faltering economy. We need reliable power to grow our PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 87 1 economy, serve our tourists and visitors, protect our 2 community and promote job growth. I urge you to take 3 the only responsible course and support the safe 4 and speedy restart of SONGS as soon as possible. 5 Thank you. 6 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 7 Mr. Gary Headrick? 8 STATEMENT OF MR. HEADRICK 9 MR. HEADRICK: Hello. My name's Gary 10 Headrick, and I represent myself and my wife 11 and my granddaughter, like you've heard 12 stories before. But also San Clemente Green 13 is a large group that is very concerned about 14 a number of factors, and cost and reliability 15 is, obviously, a big part of that. And 16 you've heard a lot of good testimony today, 17 and I'm glad you are taking it all in. I 18 just want to make a couple of points that are 19 a little different. 20 One is that I did some research having to do 21 with the way the NRC values the loss of a life. And 22 what I found out is that the EPA actually values a 23 life loss as $6.1 million. And the GAO reported that 24 it is hard to justify below $5 million. But the NRC 25 uses a figure of $3 million to value the loss of a 26 life. So my question is how does this disparity 27 influence the CPUC? And is it appropriate for the 28 CPUC to have the NRC update their model? Their PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 88 1 financial model? And how does that affect your cost 2 effectiveness analysis? I think it would skew the 3 numbers in another way than where it might be 4 currently at 3 million. 5 Secondly, without pre-judging Commissioner 6 Peevey, who is not here, and I don't know him 7 personally and I don't mean this personally, but the 8 public sees a lot of delays happening in what we would 9 think would be an immediate step that the CPUC could 10 do to stop the bleeding of our ratepayer money into a 11 lost cause, basically. And the reason I bring it up 12 is because of President Peevey's history with Edison. 13 And you can't help but wonder: Is there some loyalty 14 to Edison lingering from the past? 15 And I'm basically asking that we ask 16 Commissioner Peevey to make a statement, give us some 17 examples of things that he's done that are not in the 18 interests of Edison, some way that we can be reassured 19 that his testimony and his judgment is not impaired by 20 his past relationship with Edison. 21 And, lastly, I would just like the CPUC to 22 weigh in, as Boxer and Markley have, demanding this 23 document that indicates whether Edison is culpable in 24 performing duties that put us at risk, our investments 25 and energy and the potential loss for -- if there was 26 a crisis, it would just -- it's insurmountable. So I 27 ask you to join in, the NRC and the CPUC, to demand 28 that those documents are made readily available. It PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 89 1 shouldn't take this long. 2 Thank you. 3 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Campbell. 6 STATEMENT OF MR. CAMPBELL 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Good day, Judge. Judge 8 Darling and Commissioner Florio, I'm Bruce 9 Campbell from Los Angeles. First, I wish you 10 wouldn't use the term "SONGS." It's 11 essentially buying into the Edison PR 12 campaign. Speaking of Edison's PR campaign, 13 are ratepayers paying for SCE propaganda, 14 literature, newspaper ads and other so-called 15 meetings in their public affairs or other 16 funds? I don't think the ratepayers should 17 have to pay for that. 18 So the steam generators were not like to 19 like. However, and, thus, it should have prompted the 20 NRC license amendment process, but NRC was being -- 21 anyway, but they didn't want to have evidentiary 22 hearings and, thus, wanted to have the quicker 23 process. 24 The ratepayer should not spend another penny 25 on any of the four defective steam generators. In 26 fact, they should be refunded every penny they spent 27 on four defective steam generators. The PUC must 28 insist on knowing the exact timing of when the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 90 1 anti-vibration bar design team, which I believe had 2 SCE, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries people on it at 3 least, when it was formed and when they first met to 4 discuss the replacement steam generator issue. 5 Also, I remember -- I knew the legal 6 intervenor at San Onofre Unit 1, who is a retired 7 gentleman in Hawaii at this point, and I remember he 8 said that the PUC said we'll have to take it out of 9 the rate base unless you fire it up soon. And though 10 it leaked like a sieve, they wanted to recover the 11 funds. So they fired up fairly soon thereafter, but 12 then they had problems. So they finally shut down 13 Unit 1. 14 You should also study various 15 worst-case accident estimates for San Onofre, 16 including Skandia Labs' 1982 study which included 17 property damage estimates and San Onofre environmental 18 impact documents which may be from 1983. 19 Of course, if these city -- if a number of 20 these city folks who are from the business community 21 and giving SCE's line, if they actually support a fair 22 and transparent hearing, it makes me wonder about this 23 process, since it looks like SCE rented the building 24 and they are having these people saying they want a 25 fair and transparent hearing. We need all document -- 26 I understand PUC called for the sealing of certain 27 documents. A full and transparent process would mean 28 we want to see all documents. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 91 1 And also, San Onofre definitely has the 2 worst safety culture in the nation and the worst steam 3 generator situation in the nation. And we also should 4 avoid a lot of -- the once through cooling system, to 5 avoid impingement and entrainment of species if we 6 should shut it down and no longer fund it, to get it 7 shut down as soon as possible and decommissioned. 8 Thank you. 9 ALJ DARLING: All right. Thank you. I 10 would like to make one corrective statement. 11 Edison didn't rent this building. Actually, 12 Commissioner Florio and I had made the 13 decision to hold this meeting here because we 14 thought it would be a good facility for a 15 public meeting, with lots of open space, good 16 parking, and restrooms, and so forth. And it 17 was free from the City of Costa Mesa, so none 18 of your dollars are going towards this. 19 (Audience clapping.) 20 ALJ DARLING: Okay. Mr. Ziglar, 21 followed by Mr. Freeman. 22 Let me just give you the next five speakers: 23 Beverly Findlay-Kaneko, Carol Jahnkow, Rochelle 24 Becker, Mary Parsons and Vicki Pell, if you would like 25 to come forward, and that way the -- 26 (Technical difficulties.) 27 ALJ DARLING: Off the record. 28 (Off the record.) PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 92 1 ALJ DARLING: Okay. Mr. Ziglar. 2 STATEMENT OF MR. ZIGLAR 3 MR. ZIGLAR: Yeah. My name is Randy 4 Ziglar. I live in Carlsbad, California, 5 pretty close to San Onofre. I'm here to keep 6 it closed. Close it down. Keep it closed, 7 decommission it. I don't have any problems 8 with paying Edison for whatever it takes to 9 make clean, reliable affordable, safe energy. 10 But when you're making radioactive waste, I 11 don't see it as meeting those criteria. 12 I think this is a very dangerous and 13 risky technology. It's unimaginable to me 14 what would happen to this state if there is 15 an accident like Fukushima. I mean, even the 16 people that work here with the Chamber of 17 Commerce and their beautiful businesses, 18 they'll want to work in Texas by then. Then 19 Perry will win. 20 I keep hearing the news reports and 21 I keep hearing how utterly the solar and wind 22 energy is going down in price. Meanwhile, I 23 keep hearing about how more and how terribly 24 expensive oil, gas and particularly nuclear 25 energy is without an accident. 26 You know, let's not reward Edison 27 for doing the wrong thing and going in and 28 gambling on dangerous energy. Let's reward PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 93 1 it for doing good things like clean, safe, 2 renewable, local solar, wind energy we just 3 heard. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 MR. ZIGLAR: We just heard that the 6 sun keeps shining and the wind keeps blowing 7 regardless of what happens to San Onofre. 8 All I expect from the government, the federal 9 government, the state government, is to 10 safeguard us and to safeguard the future 11 generations. That's all I ask. Not to be 12 beholding to money making at any price. 13 Let's not take the short-term money making 14 proposition. Let's think in terms of the 15 next generation and do the right thing and 16 get rid of all this pollution. 17 Thank you. 18 ALJ DARLING: Thank you, Mr. Ziglar. 19 Is our sound man still here? The sound 20 tech? All right. Well, let's give it a try. 21 Mr. Freeman? 22 What's this? 23 ALJ DARLING: What is this? 24 UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is 25 just the other microphone that was already 26 there. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. FREEMAN 28 MR. FREEMAN: My name is Bill Freeman. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94 1 I am a local business person. My office is 2 about one mile south of here. My concern is 3 jobs. San Onofre not only employs hundreds 4 of people directly, but indirectly hundreds 5 of more goods and services to the area. 6 Think about the fact that the Irvine Spectrum 7 Center -- it probably wouldn't be here if not 8 for SONGS. 9 Think about the suburbs that are 10 from here to Oceanside and inland. Probably 11 wouldn't be here if it was not for SONGS. 12 You would probably still have bean fields and 13 you would probably still have orchards in 14 this area if it was not Southern California 15 Edison's energy that was being used to supply 16 the services that's necessary for the homes 17 and businesses in these areas. 18 Now, you say that we should not pay 19 for the kind of problems that Edison has with 20 its power systems. Edison paid to develop 21 those systems and put them in place for your 22 use. What would happen if Edison left and 23 you had to bring in some other power company 24 to develop a new source of power? 25 Consider the fact that people were 26 not happy in Redondo Beach. Redondo Beach 27 closed. People were not happy with Mojave; 28 it closed. Palles Verdes, closed. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 95 1 If you want to know how much money you're 2 going to have to pay, think about the fact that 3 nuclear energy is the cheapest energy that you can 4 buy. 5 (Audience laughing.) 6 MR. FREEMAN: Laugh if you wish. Think 7 about the fact that there have never been -- 8 or, by comparison, the hundreds of lives lost 9 in black lung disease from fossil fuel plants 10 and the number of plants that have died from 11 oil and gas fired plants. And then think 12 about the green impact. Make a comparison. 13 Stop coming from an emotional point of view 14 and come from a knowledgeable point of view. 15 Thank you. 16 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 17 Miss Beverly Findlay? 18 Let's go off the record for a moment to 19 switch out the microphone. 20 (Off the record.) 21 ALJ DARLING: Okay. Let's go back on 22 the record. 23 Would you like to introduce yourself? 24 STATEMENT OF MS. FINDLAY-KANEKO 25 MS. FINDLAY-KANEKO: Yes. Your Honor 26 and Commissioner, my name is Beverly 27 Findlay-Kaneko. And I hope that today I am 28 coming from a knowledgeable as well as an PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 96 1 emotional point of view. The reason why is 2 because I am an evacuee from Japan in the 3 wake of Fukushima. I know what it is like to 4 sit at home and wonder where the radioactive 5 plume is traveling and whether it is safe to 6 go outside. 7 Since last year's shutdown of San 8 Onofre, my interest in this protracted and 9 dangerous situation has grown. I have 10 genuine concerns about how Southern 11 California Edison's electric power monopoly 12 uses funds designated for community outreach. 13 My experience as an extremely concerned 14 citizen seeking help and answers through 15 local government has been that Edison's 16 version of outreach involves heavily lobbying 17 government officials and community groups. 18 For example, they use specious 19 materials such as an e-mail blast, just in 20 the past couple of days, to local law makers 21 connecting to a propaganda video about grid 22 reliability. In my own city there was a 23 conscious effort to circumvent public 24 participation in local government on this 25 issue. 26 It is extremely disappointing, coming from 27 my standpoint, as someone who is really genuinely 28 seeking help from local officials, it's disappointing PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 97 1 to walk into a city council meeting and see a council 2 member that you have tried for months to get a meeting 3 with glad-handing two members of the Southern 4 California Edison PR team, or during that meeting, 5 during the meeting where the resolution is on the 6 agenda, to hear yet another council member, who has 7 refused to meet with you again and again, apologize to 8 the Southern California Edison representative for 9 causing her to postpone her vacation. 10 Our ratepayer dollars are going towards 11 polishing the tarnished image of Southern California 12 Edison and currying favor for nuclear power, not 13 toward actual community outreach. As a customer, I 14 would expect community outreach to include things like 15 disaster preparation and awareness through the 50-mile 16 zone that was required by our embassy in Japan. 17 As someone who has firsthand experience with 18 a nuclear disaster, I know that we are not ready for 19 any kind of incident. And I also believe that we need 20 a conservation campaign that actually reaches the 21 public and doesn't get shredded with the rest of the 22 junk mail. 23 I encourage the CPUC to investigate these 24 issues further. 25 Thank you very much for your time. 26 (Audience clapping.) 27 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 28 Carol Jahnkow? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 98 1 STATEMENT OF MS. JAHNKOW 2 MS. JAHNKOW: Hello. I'm Carol 3 Jahnkow, and I am the representative today 4 for the Peace Resource Center of San Diego. 5 We are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit education group. 6 And we are a conglomeration of individual 7 members, church memberships, and other 8 non-profits in the San Diego area. And I 9 want to thank you very much for the 10 opportunity today to address you. I'm also 11 very glad that you will be holding a meeting 12 in the future in San Diego because there is 13 great interest there. 14 We are not just looking at the 10-mile zone. 15 We are looking at how far down radiation might reach 16 us in San Diego. And our mayor recently became very 17 concerned about that. Our new mayor, Bob Fillner, has 18 written to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission on the 19 issue. You would have a copy of that letter in a 20 packet that was left for you. But he's basically 21 asking the NRC not to authorize the restart of SONGS 22 until both a full license amendment hearing has been 23 conducted by the NRC and until your study is done. So 24 he is very concerned about that, and I'm sure he will 25 be addressing your representative when you are in San 26 Diego. 27 I, myself, live in Encinitas. I'm 26 miles 28 from the plant. I was very interested today to hear PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 99 1 about the community outreach providing information. I 2 will tell you that in all the years that I have lived 3 in San Diego County, which are getting more and more 4 numerous, I have never received at my home anything 5 from the industry about any kind of sheltering in 6 place, anything that I would need to know if there was 7 an emergency, if there was an accident and the 8 radiation went beyond the 10-mile limit that it's 9 supposed to stop at, and it may not know that. 10 So I'm a little concerned about that. I'm 11 going to go home and check my telephone book and see 12 if there is indeed something in there, because that 13 was news to me. And I would question that as a very 14 reliable way to get the information out, especially in 15 a county like San Diego where we have such diverse 16 ethnicity and languages. 17 I see I only have a minute. Let me just add 18 that I want to add my voice to those saying stop the 19 bleeding. I do not think it is reasonable to expect 20 the ratepayers to pay for a demonstrated defective 21 nuclear reactor. We need our refund. And I would 22 pose that instead of looking at whether we're going to 23 pay the cost for the mistakes that Edison made and the 24 decisions that were made that have proved to be wrong, 25 let's have the shareholders start to pay for some of 26 this instead of the public. 27 (Audience clapping.) 28 MS. JAHNKOW: You know, let Edison pay PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 100 1 for it. Let the shareholders pay for it. 2 And, secondly, I just want to say I don't 3 think it's prudent to put any more dollars into a 4 reactor that has shown itself to be unreliable. We 5 are looking at a long life term on this. And I think 6 if any more dollars are going to be spent on San 7 Onofre, they should be for decommissioning. Thank 8 you. 9 (Audience clapping.) 10 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 11 Rochelle Becker? 12 STATEMENT OF MS. BECKER 13 MS. BECKER: Thank you. And thank you 14 very much for being here and also agreeing to 15 go to San Diego. We pay 20 percent of the 16 rates and we deserve to be heard as well down 17 there. 18 What I would like to bring up today is the 19 news in the last year -- actually, this year, but 20 since San Onofre went down, that there are several 21 other nuclear power plants that are no longer going to 22 be operating. So we actually have concrete evidence 23 that we can roll into this record. 24 There is the Kiwani (phonetic) plant that is 25 no longer open, and Comanche Peak -- not Comanche 26 Peak. Crystal River. Crystal River, last week the 27 news was, from the people who live there, the same 28 chambers of commerce, the same city officials PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 101 1 basically saying "please don't think of our city just 2 as a place that used to have a nuclear plant. There's 3 beaches here, there are other things here," to bring 4 people to our community. 5 So the same people that were very much in 6 favor of this nuclear power plant and restarting this 7 nuclear power plant for three years, when it didn't 8 operate, are now saying, "well, it's not going to be 9 here any longer. What is our community going to do?" 10 Last week the Board -- not last week, 11 Tuesday, the Board of Supervisors in San Luis Obispo 12 voted to do their own study of what San Luis Obispo 13 would do if they lost the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant. 14 That's what's not being done locally. 15 They are asking you to do a lot. But 16 locally, if they lose these jobs, if they lose this 17 energy, they have to do some planning themselves. So 18 it's really beholden on everyone in the State of 19 California to do what's best for everyone in the State 20 of California. Not just for Edison, not just for the 21 local community, but for the State of California. 22 Where is our future power? Where are our jobs? Where 23 is the infrastructure that's going to be needed? And 24 look at the other communities that have lost theirs 25 and see what happened there. 26 Thank you. 27 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 28 Our next speaker is Mary Parsons. The five PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 102 1 speakers following in order: Vicki Pell, Hugh Moore, 2 Torgen Johnson, Donald Kelly, and Lyn Harris-Hicks. 3 If you would come forward to the front. 4 And Mary Parsons, are you here? 5 No Mary Parsons. 6 Okay. Vicki Pell? 7 Hugh Moore? Mr. Moore. 8 STATEMENT OF MR. MOORE 9 MR. MOORE: Good afternoon. Thank you 10 for the time. My name is Hugh Moore. I'm 11 speaking for the San Diego County Green 12 Party. A couple of years ago, the California 13 Public Utilities Commission was asked to 14 evaluate a plan to replace steam generators 15 at the Edison plant at San Onofre. 16 You agreed at that time that the cost of 17 expense, the risk of running a nuclear power plant, 18 and the financial costs would be outweighed by the 19 benefits of operating that plant. At that time, 20 however, you went a step further than saying that it 21 would be beneficial. You said that the cost just made 22 it; in other words, if the cost was any greater, it 23 wouldn't have meant the benefit was greater than the 24 risk. Well, that was when you were going to have two 25 operating plants operating at a hundred percent. Now 26 you have one that might be able to operate at 27 70 percent. That's considerably less than the 28 130 percent that you had to add before. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 103 1 You have no choice but to close this plant. 2 Your own report shows that it is not beneficial to the 3 public. You represent the public. Your prior report 4 proves that it is not effective, beneficial. If you 5 take the risks and the costs, the benefit doesn't 6 outweigh the risk. You have no choice but to close 7 the plant. 8 Thank you very much. 9 (Audience clapping.) 10 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Johnson? 11 STATEMENT OF MR. JOHNSON 12 MR. JOHNSON: My name is Torgen 13 Johnson. I am from North County, San Diego. 14 I hold two graduate planning degrees from 15 Harvard. I'm not speaking from an emotional 16 standpoint. I'm speaking from a very 17 rational concern about cost and reliability 18 of San Onofre. 19 I heard the chief nuclear officer of 20 Edison, Peter Dietrich, talk about his public 21 outreach, public affairs efforts. They are 22 extensive. They are large. They are 23 expensive. And I think it's unusual that 24 Edison put so much public relations promoting 25 San Onofre with those funds rather than 26 explaining to the public the nature of the 27 safety issues at the facility. 28 So in terms of the efficacy of the public PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 104 1 outreach programs, I think that the CPUC needs to look 2 more closely what Edison is doing with that money. 3 And also whether or not the outcome of all that 4 outreach work is not cheerleading, but rather 5 informing the public of the extensive costs to society 6 when those plants become very unreliable. Tepka 7 learned that the unreliability of the Fukushima 8 Daiichi plant ran them into bankruptcy. It also 9 brought the fourth largest economy in the world to its 10 knees. 11 So when we talk about public outreach and 12 safety, I think we need to be realistic about what we 13 are talking about. There are, of course, ratepayer 14 costs and there are other costs that are associated 15 with extreme unreliability of a plant such as the 16 steam generator failures we are looking at. This is 17 the third set of steam generators we are looking at. 18 The first set failed early. The second set was 19 produced and it went in, and it failed. And it looks 20 like Edison would like to do a second -- I'm sorry, a 21 third set of steam generators. And each time we are 22 looking at over a billion dollars of cost to the 23 public and unreliability of power when the facility is 24 down. 25 I want to say that you provide a very 26 important function in a regulated monopoly. The 27 monopoly is afforded to Edison because it is 28 supposedly providing a benefit to society that is so PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 105 1 extreme and so important that they were given 2 protection from the state. But as some people here 3 said, we want you to cooperate with Edison. I would 4 say maybe, but not too much. You're the regulator. 5 And as a regulator, you are representing the public 6 and the public interests. And the public interest is 7 not being served by Edison right now trying to charge 8 these steam generator defects back to the ratepayers. 9 We're strapped to this company through this 10 arrangement that we have of a regulating monopoly. We 11 have no choice. Please protect us. Please protect 12 our money. Our money means a lot to us. I just said 13 outside earlier that our school collects funds from 14 all the parents for crayons and pencils and paper for 15 our students. And, yet, Edison, with their very 16 inflated payroll of upper management, has no problem 17 charging over a billion dollars back to ratepayers for 18 something that we are not responsible for. 19 Thank you. 20 (Audience clapping.) 21 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Donald Kelly? 22 STATEMENT OF MR. KELLY 23 MR. KELLY: Good afternoon, and thank 24 you for having this hearing. My name is 25 Donald Kelly. I am the executive director of 26 You Can. We are a party to the matter. 27 I would like to thank you for agreeing to 28 hold a public participation hearing in San Diego. I PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 106 1 would also urge you to hold it in Phase 1 as an 2 opposed to later phases. I do think the public's 3 input in San Diego is important and to hear it as soon 4 as possible in the OII process. 5 I would also urge you -- I would also urge 6 both of you to consider the prior record that was made 7 when the steam generators were replaced the first 8 time. I would like you to actually examine the 9 evidence that was presented and the promises 10 specifically that were made by Southern California 11 Edison. 12 At the time, the generators were supposed to 13 last a couple of decades. They have not lasted 14 respectively in one and two years. I think it would 15 be informative in the process if you consider the 16 record and the promises that were made by Southern 17 California Edison before considering whether or not 18 they should get new funding to redo it again. 19 Thank you. 20 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 21 (Audience clapping.) 22 ALJ DARLING: Next speaker is Lyn 23 Harris-Hicks. The next speakers following 24 will be Mr. Kernahan, Miss Valorie Johnson, 25 Miss Hartfield and Mr. Kramer. And those 26 will be the final speakers for the afternoon 27 session. 28 Miss Hicks? Miss Harris-Hicks? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 107 1 STATEMENT OF MS. HARRIS-HICKS 2 MS. HARRIS-HICKS: I'm Lyn 3 Harris-Hicks, and I have been living two 4 miles away from San Onofre for about 5 44 years. We were there before it came in, 6 of course, but I want to -- I want you to 7 know that I am just as much concerned about 8 my children and grandchildren and your 9 grandchildren and great grandchildren as I am 10 my own. 11 And this is something that we have to right 12 now just kind of look over that and say that for the 13 sake of the nation and the world, we must make this a 14 thorough -- a thorough. And most of us are thinking 15 we have to cut it off right now because of the hazards 16 and all that. But what we do here may have great 17 impact on what happens in the United States and what 18 happens in other places and the world, because the 19 world is watching us after Fukushima, whether we'll 20 pay attention to the lessons there and whether we pay 21 attention to the lessons of what things are happening 22 with Chernobyl and the other places. 23 But the reason I say that is that I'm old 24 enough that I watched this go on for -- well, I'm 85. 25 Maybe it's been 50 years or so that I have been 26 interested in it. But I saw the same process going on 27 in the failure of the first -- the first unit there. 28 The Edison followed the same practices preventing PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 108 1 people from knowing what's happening, and going to the 2 business people and saying we really need this 3 electricity; don't let them turn it off. That sort of 4 thing. And we hear it now again. In each session we 5 go to, they'll have the workmen in their orange shirts 6 all saying we really need our jobs, and so forth. 7 And it's much more than that because when 8 they closed down Unit 1, the Edison was pretty much in 9 control just like now. And they made a deal with them 10 that they could charge to the ratepayers anything that 11 was -- they spent on it. And we were four years 12 paying what they called their expanded investments. 13 Four years. And we know that the Commission made the 14 agreement with Edison when they approved the steam 15 generators, that they can charge the ratepayers 16 anything they spent on it. And you're reaping that 17 now. 18 And when you look at the charges that they 19 bring in that are so excessive -- and it isn't 20 something that matters whether it's excessive or not, 21 you made the agreement. And so it's going to be a 22 problem. And that problem I think we must all think 23 about because they call this -- they call this the 24 problems that they have there. But they are not 25 problems. They're multiple failures. They were 26 designed for a simple pipe break, to be able to 27 withstand a simple pipe break. 28 And these problems that we have had again PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 109 1 and again, there will be several things that happen 2 that make a difference and make it much more serious, 3 much more dangerous. And so we mustn't let them 4 continue to do that. They say there was a small leak 5 and that they're working on it. And in August, the 6 president of Edison said "We're going to restart it in 7 October 19th." Nice. Okay. 8 And then they -- that Nuclear Regulatory 9 Commission says "We won't let them start it until 10 we're really sure that it's safe." And they've been 11 telling us all the years we're really sure that it's 12 safe. No matter what happens in Chernobyl or 13 Fukushima or whatever, they say we assure the safety 14 of the public. But they're not doing it now. Because 15 I read a book just the other day that was put out 16 telling people about the Regulatory Commission -- I 17 mean the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and they used 18 the word -- let's see -- they used the word that they 19 are responsible -- they don't have undue hazards. 20 Okay. You figure out what "undue" is. But in our 21 world, they've been past that a long, long time ago. 22 ALJ DARLING: All right. Thank you 23 very much. 24 (Audience clapping.) 25 ALJ DARLING: Galal Kernahan. 26 Did I get that right? 27 STATEMENT OF MR. KERNAHAN 28 MR. KERNAHAN: Yes, Galal Kernahan. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 110 1 First, I would like to start out with a 2 little disclaimer. I don't have second sight 3 and I don't transport or have visions of the 4 future or anything like that. And I make 5 that statement because about almost two years 6 ago, Southern California Edison had a meeting 7 where it cultivated the Latino leadership of 8 Orange County. It was over at the Marriott 9 near the airport. Really fine. Really, they 10 laid out things great. I'm not even Latino 11 and, boy, you know, they convinced me. And I 12 had a wonderful time there. But we heard the 13 CEO of Southern California Edison talk to us. 14 I don't know what the Public Utilities 15 Commission can do about really major things like, you 16 know, if the earth splits in half or something. 17 That's a little beyond you. But I did raise a 18 question there with the CEO from Southern California. 19 I said what happens if there is a really, really, good 20 sized, once every 500 years or whatever tsunami? And 21 he explained to me, you know. I thought he'd say "We 22 all run to the church and pray." But, no, no. But 23 you look where San Onofre is, you look at the little 24 wall there and you wonder about things like that. 25 But in any event, went home afterward. They 26 fed us. Great. Boy, I mean, if Southern California 27 Edison is out to cultivate people, man, they do it 28 right. And we had a great, great time, and people PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 111 1 were fine and we felt good about it. 2 I got a call that evening from one of my 3 Latino friends and he said, "geez, what did you know 4 that we didn't know?" And I said what happened? He 5 said, "there was a tsunami that just took out the 6 Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan." Well, so it does 7 say it does happen. It doesn't happen maybe right 8 where you thought it might happen. But you never know 9 when it might happen there. 10 So the reason I mention this, and I have one 11 minute to tell you, that I have been through it. I 12 have seen what a tsunami would do to San Onofre. 13 Fifty years ago, the daddy governor of the present 14 governor of the State of California appointed me -- 15 what a mistake -- as the regional administrator of the 16 California Disaster Office. The balloon goes up, 17 buddy, and you're in charge. 18 Well, so they had a little exercise. And 19 these exercises were already developed by all kinds of 20 people and got all these things on the radio. And I 21 had radio things on all of the frequencies of Southern 22 California and everybody else, public works and 23 whatever. And so they're feeding all this information 24 and we're supposed to figure out what to do about it. 25 And the information is there is an enormous wave, and 26 it's come in and it's cut Pacific Coast Highway and in 27 12 places, including up to San Onofre. Well, what's 28 that about? What nuclear weapon had gone off under PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 112 1 water off Point Loma? That was our exercise. 2 A couple of weeks later I thought, man, this 3 isn't for me, not even to imagine, and I went on to 4 better things. The only point that I'm making is 5 these things happen very rarely, but once is enough. 6 And the point is we already have something we know 7 that's not economic, we know that it is a bad deal, 8 that it is dangerous. And if the wheel of fortune 9 turns just a little bit more beyond the wrong point, 10 people, we have a disaster area. 11 We have earthquake faults. We know what a 12 tsunami is, and we would really learn about it if we 13 had the one that I had to go through an exercise on 14 when I was young and sturdy and could solve the 15 problems of the world. 16 Thank you. 17 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 18 (Audience clapping.) 19 Valorie Johnson? Miss Johnson? 20 STATEMENT OF MS. JOHNSON 21 MS. JOHNSON: Hello. My name's Valorie 22 Johnson. I'm not an elected official. I 23 don't come from the corporate world or the 24 scientific community, but I most definitely 25 am a stakeholder because I surf at San Onofre 26 on an almost daily basis. And I could tell 27 you about the beauty of the place and the 28 creatures that live in the ocean, but PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 113 1 unfortunately, my eyes have been opened. 2 Perhaps it sounds cynical, but I realize that 3 many of the people who are in charge of these 4 decisions that affect all our lives look only 5 at the bottom line. So let's look at the 6 bottom line for a moment, shall we? 7 California's economy is driven by real 8 estate, by tourism and by recreation. If you think 9 just alone of the companies that make surfboards, wet 10 suits, trunks, bikinis, all kinds of what you would 11 call life-style products that are headquartered in 12 Orange and San Diego counties, the value of those 13 businesses alone would thwart Edison's investment, 14 even before we start to look at tourism, at hotels, at 15 real estate, million dollar beach-front homes. 16 We hear a lot about the technical 17 information about steam generators and tubes. None of 18 that technical information would matter at all if we 19 had a major earthquake and tsunami that washed 20 radioactive material out into our ocean. In fact, the 21 mere perception -- even if we were assured that it was 22 safe, the mere perception by people across the country 23 and world that Southern California and its beaches had 24 somehow become unsafe would completely tank our 25 economy. So let's think about the economy. 26 I really, truly think that there is no such 27 thing as an acceptable risk for keeping San Onofre 28 nuclear power plant open. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 114 1 (Audience clapping.) 2 MS. JOHNSON: There is no such thing as 3 an acceptable risk. We hear things about the 4 evacuation plan. Well, let's suppose that 5 things actually worked and we were actually 6 able to evacuate people in the case of a 7 meltdown. Then what? What if we couldn't 8 return to our homes? What if we couldn't 9 return to our businesses? People who think 10 of jobs don't think of the fact that the jobs 11 would be the least of their worries if they 12 couldn't even live in Southern California in 13 that 50-mile radius. 14 I want to say that I do very much support 15 the workers of the plant. I am a proud union member 16 myself. I understand their concerns. But I think 17 that what needs to happen is that those people should 18 be first in line for the jobs needed to decommission 19 the plant and to truck the toxic awful that it has 20 already generated as far away as possible from our 21 precious and beautiful ocean. 22 Thank you. 23 (Audience clapping.) 24 ALJ DARLING: Sheila Hartfield? Miss 25 Hartfield, are you still here? 26 STATEMENT OF MS. HARTFIELD 27 MS. HARTFIELD: Hi. I'm Sheila 28 Hartfield. I'm with the -- I'm in Whittier. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 115 1 I'm with the League of Women Voters and 2 Women's International League for Peace and 3 Freedom, and as a representative, I am 4 speaking for us all. 5 It's time to take the Governor Brown's goal 6 of clean, renewable energy and energy efficiency 7 seriously. We can accelerate the effort and make 8 California the world's clean energy leader by 9 eliminating the money pit of California's nuclear 10 power. California could have cleaner, cheaper, more 11 reliable power without San Onofre. 12 San Onofre is old and unreliable. We can 13 never depend on it. And we should invest in clean 14 energy and energy efficiency. And the CPUC should 15 plan replacement resources in a transparent process. 16 Energy efficiency would lower costs in the short term, 17 and renewable energy would keep costs low in the long 18 term, while gas and nuclear costs can only continue to 19 accelerate. 20 Clean resources would accelerate California 21 job growth. California should convene an inter-agency 22 working group to determine in a public transparent 23 process how to use targeted clean resources and energy 24 efficiency to replace San Onofre's lost power, and 25 particularly energy efficiency, demand response, 26 rooftop solar and storage. 27 A November 2012 decision by CPUC, energy 28 efficiency case ordered Edison and San Diego Gas and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 116 1 Electric to use efficiency to replace San Onofre, but 2 it lacks any details. 3 In February 2013 -- that's recent -- for the 4 first time ever, CPUC's decision in a long-term 5 procurement case ordered Edison to use efficiency 6 demand response and local renewables to offset the 7 need for local power supplies, but it put Edison in 8 charge of figuring out how to make that work. 9 Edison has, obviously, conflicts of 10 interest. So the Commission should launch a public 11 process with independent experts. Edison should not 12 be in charge of the process. 13 (Audience clapping.) 14 ALJ DARLING: All right. The last 15 speaker of the afternoon session, Mr. Al 16 Kramer. 17 STATEMENT OF MR. KRAMER 18 MR. KRAMER: You must welcome my 19 appearance, then, being the last speaker. 20 Your Honor, Commissioner, first of 21 all, let me congratulate you on your stamina. 22 I have served as a city councilor and 23 legislative and as a judge for 18 years, and 24 have been there listening to different 25 testimony. And I must say after three hours, 26 you have done so with great competence, 27 ability and attentiveness, and I think we all 28 appreciate that very much. Pardon my attire. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 117 1 I didn't intend to speak. But having 2 listened to what occurred here, I thought I 3 would add a voice. 4 I listened with great interest to 5 very sincere business people coming forward 6 concerned about their employees, concerned 7 about their business, who have basically said 8 that they wanted reliable, inexpensive and 9 safe energy. And I heard one gentleman 10 correctly say that they weren't advocating 11 anything that wasn't safe, and they relied on 12 the regulatory agencies to make sure that it 13 would be. 14 And so I have to ask one question. 15 What is it about Fukushima we just don't 16 understand? 17 (Audience clapping.) 18 MR. KRAMER: It bears repeating. What 19 is it about Fukushima we just don't 20 understand? Do they really believe the 21 regulatory agencies can provide safety? Do 22 they really believe a 10-mile limit will 23 provide safety? Do they really believe that 24 an evacuation plan, even if it works, 25 provides safety? Do they really believe that 26 California doesn't have earthquakes? Do they 27 really believe that the San Onofre doesn't 28 lie between two faults? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 118 1 Yes, it is a small risk, but it is a risk of 2 great harm and it happens. And when it happens, it is 3 a disaster that doesn't help employees or anybody 4 else. 5 One minute. Thank you very much. I'll 6 extend that one minute and 25 seconds because somebody 7 just heckled me out there. 8 The idea that it's reliable is kind of 9 almost like a joke. We have something that's 10 decommissioned and shut down, and we're talking about 11 it being reliable. It's strange. 12 Talk about not having costs. Of course it's 13 not costly if you defray all the incompetence and 14 mistakes onto ratepayers. Of course it's not costly 15 if the billions of dollars of a disaster is picked up 16 by all taxpayers. If you add up all the costs, 17 including the handling of waste and everything else, 18 this is probably the most costly system you could have 19 for energy -- 20 (Audience clapping.) 21 MR. KRAMER: And we look forward to 22 renewable energy. And as people so elegantly 23 had put it -- the time is up. I'm just 24 reading the sign. 25 It is very clear where history is going. 26 And I think all the people are asking you to do is be 27 on the side of history. It's time for renewable 28 energy, safe energy, reliable energy, and eventually PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 119 1 inexpensive energy. 2 Thank you for all your attention to this 3 matter. 4 (Audience clapping.) 5 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: I very much 6 appreciate all of the dialogue this 7 afternoon. We'll be taking all of it into 8 consideration in our actions going forward. 9 Again, it will be the NRC that will decide 10 whether the plant is allowed to reopen or 11 not. But regardless of what side of the 12 issue you're on, if the plant is not 13 available this summer, we are all going to 14 need to conserve energy. And I just hope 15 that message resonates with everyone, is we 16 don't know if it's going to be back or not. 17 But if it's not, it really takes a 18 ground-level community effort, not undue 19 hardship, but really prudent careful use of 20 energy if we find ourselves in that 21 situation. 22 As I said earlier, we will be making 23 contingency plans if the plant doesn't come back. If 24 it does, it won't be forever. So, you know, there's a 25 lot of work ahead for us. But it's really helpful to 26 see the diversity of views. I appreciate that people 27 were knowledgeable and courteous to each other. And 28 we will continue this this evening. Thank you. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 120 1 ] 2 (Audience clapping.) 3 (Whereupon, at the hour of 5:11 p.m., this matter having been continued 4 to 6:00 p.m., at Costa Mesa, California, the Commission adjourned.) 5 6 * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 121 1 EVENING SESSION 2 * * * * * 3 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE DARLING: Good 4 afternoon, good evening, actually. I'm 5 Melanie Darling. I'm the administrative law 6 judge that is assigned to this proceeding. 7 Today's date is February 21st, 2013. 8 This is a public participation hearing 9 scheduled as part of the California Public 10 Utilities Commission Investigation No. 11 13-10-013, relating to the shutdown of the 12 two nuclear units at San Onofre as a result 13 of operational problems with new steam 14 generators supplied by Mitsubishi Heavy 15 Industries. 16 As many of you know, deciding 17 whether or not SCE may restart either unit 18 under its federal operating license is the 19 authority of the Nuclear Regulatory 20 Commission. We are not the Nuclear 21 Regulatory Commission. We have a different 22 jurisdiction. Our own investigation will 23 look at what actions Edison took relative to 24 the new generator project, and what Edison 25 has done since the company became aware of 26 the damage at SONGS. 27 I want to just briefly explain that. 28 "SONGS" is a common acronym used in the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 122 1 industry for San Onofre Nuclear Generating 2 Station. If you hear "SONGS," we are talking 3 about San Onofre's units. 4 Edison has collected and spent money 5 for SONGS in several categories since January 6 2012, including planned operation and 7 maintenance cost, capital expenditures, and 8 post-outage expenses, including the cost of 9 the purchasing replacement power for the 10 power lost through the shutdown. In addition 11 the entire cost of the steam generator 12 replacement project, including whether 13 repairs or replacements are cost-effective 14 for ratepayers, will be included in our 15 investigation and review. 16 Furthermore, state law allows the 17 Commission to remove nonoperating generation 18 facilities from the rate base. If the 19 Commission decides to do that, or finds that 20 any of these expenditures are unreasonable, 21 we can order refunds to ratepayers. 22 The Commission, and I believe the 23 count is 26 intervening parties in this 24 proceeding, will closely examine Edison's 25 testimony on these various matters at 26 evidentiary hearings we will be holding later 27 this year. Our focus may evolve as new 28 information is obtained. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 123 1 Today we have asked Edison to spend 2 just a very few minutes to describe its 3 efforts, particularly after the shutdown; 4 about how it has been communicating with its 5 neighbors, local governments, and community 6 organizations; and preparing for coordinated 7 responses in the event of a hazardous 8 condition at SONGS. 9 I would like -- following that 10 portion of the hearing, we will proceed with 11 individual members of the public. 12 I would like to introduce Karen 13 Miller who this Commission's Public Advisor. 14 The Public Advisor's Office exists to help 15 you, the public, become more informed and to 16 have an input into proceedings. She is going 17 to describe a little bit about what her 18 office does, what is going on today, how the 19 speaking will work. 20 STATEMENT OF MS. MILLER 21 MS. MILLER: Good evening. Thank you 22 for coming. 23 As the Judge said, I'm Karen Miller. 24 I'm the Public Advisor at the California 25 Public Utilities Commission. And first I'd 26 like to ask everybody to put their cell 27 phones on silent. Thank you. 28 And my office facilitates the public PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 124 1 participation hearings, and we also provide 2 procedural information to people who might 3 want to get involved in the proceeding. And 4 we will talk to people about whether they 5 want to be involved at an informal level, or 6 formal level, and help people understand the 7 best way that they might be involved. 8 And we are really glad that you can 9 join us tonight. Public participation is 10 very important to the Commission. Our 11 decision makers here, the other 12 commissioners, they rely on the information 13 from public participation hearings and public 14 comments as part of their decision-making 15 process. It lets them know what the 16 community is feeling about these issues. 17 And we have agendas outside at our 18 sign-up table, and on the back of the agenda 19 we have addresses for you to send us written 20 comments. I told some of the people earlier 21 that even if they provide oral comments 22 today, they are also welcome to provide 23 written or e-mail comments to the Public 24 Advisor's Office. We take these comments and 25 circulate them to all five commissioners and 26 the judge. So they do get a lot of scrutiny. 27 Let's see. And we are going to have 28 a maximum of three minutes. And let's see if PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 125 1 I missed anything here. 2 And so we also have a way that you 3 can follow the proceedings. It is very 4 simple. It is called a subscription service. 5 On the back of the agenda we have the 6 information. We also have some brochures out 7 there. Can you sign up on the subscription 8 service. For example, with this proceeding 9 you can put in the proceeding name, and the 10 Commission will send you e-mail messages when 11 documents are filed, proposed decisions are 12 filed, things like that. So you don't have 13 to go looking for it though, but you know 14 that something has happened, and you just 15 link on it and get it. 16 So if you have any questions at all 17 about anything I'm over here, and my staff is 18 out at the table. Please come and ask us. 19 Thank you. 20 ALJ DARLING: Before we proceed, I 21 would like to introduce you to Commissioner 22 Mike Florio who is the assigned commissioner 23 for this proceeding. 24 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Thank you all 25 very much for coming out tonight. We had 26 about a three-hour session this afternoon 27 with about the same number of people, and 28 there clearly are diverse views in the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 126 1 community about this situation. But I think 2 we are all equally concerned about safety, 3 reliability, the environment, and of course 4 cost to consumers. 5 The Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 will make the decision whether San Onofre is 7 allowed to come back online or not. We at 8 the Public Utilities Commission deal 9 primarily with the economic issues and also 10 the reliability of the electric system. 11 And San Onofre has been the hub of 12 the Southern California electric system for 13 the duration of its existence. And its 14 absence creates challenges that, you know, 15 led to appeals for conservation last summer. 16 And if the plant is not restarted, there will 17 be similar appeals this summer. We hope that 18 everyone takes that to heart and, if 19 necessary, that people conserve as much as 20 reasonably practical, especially on hot days 21 when the air conditioners are there socking 22 up the juice. 23 We have extended the proceeding at 24 the Commission looking at various aspects of 25 the San Onofre situation that involve 26 technical hearings with Edison 27 representatives, our Division of Ratepayer 28 Advocates, and a wide variety of other PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 127 1 interested parties. 2 This event is your opportunity to 3 speak. It is difficult for the Commission, 4 the large entity to travel; but we do like to 5 have these sessions on important issues of 6 public concern to hear your voices. I take 7 that back, and Judge Darling and I will be 8 working together on the various decisions 9 that come out in this docket. So you are 10 talking to the people who will have the lead 11 role in putting together any Commission 12 decisions. 13 Our colleagues also get a 14 transcript. Be mindful of our court 15 reporter. She is working very hard here to 16 get everything down so all members of the 17 Commission can get the transcript of what 18 happens today. 19 But I look forward to further lively 20 discussion, urge everyone to be courteous. 21 We did pretty well on that score this 22 afternoon, and I hope we can keep it up. We 23 understand there is strongly held views, and 24 that is what the debate is about. It is kind 25 of democracy in action here. 26 So thank you all and look forward to 27 your comments. 28 ALJ DARLING: We do have a court PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 128 1 reporter here, as noted, and that means that 2 she is going to be taking down what the 3 speakers have to say. So I would urge you to 4 identify yourself and speak clearly into the 5 microphone. We will not be transcribing 6 comments that might be spoken from the 7 audience. So there is really no point to do 8 that. 9 I will also say that we did issue a 10 special invitation to local government 11 representatives, because we wanted to get 12 some additional information about what is the 13 cooperation level between Edison's 14 representatives and local governments in the 15 area of emergency preparedness, an issue that 16 is very important to those who live and work 17 in the area. 18 I'm going to start with asking 19 Mr. Dietrich from Edison to give us just a 20 few minutes on the outreach that you are 21 doing in the local communities in this area 22 of emergency preparedness related to issues 23 at SONGS. Thank you. 24 STATEMENT OF MR. DIETRICH 25 MR. DIETRICH: Thank you, Commissioner 26 Florio and ALJ Darling, appreciate the 27 opportunity; and members of the public, 28 appreciate the opportunity to speak with you PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 129 1 tonight. 2 In addressing the outreach and the 3 emergency planning efforts that Southern 4 California Edison has undertaken, I thought 5 it would be appropriate to start with a brief 6 status on the plants for where we are today. 7 As we know, both Unit 2 and Unit 3 8 have been off-line for over a year now. Unit 9 2 was taken off-line for a normally planned 10 refueling outage, last January 9th shut down 11 for normal inspection and refueling. On 12 January 31st, Unit 3 experienced a small tube 13 leak. Our operators promptly identified, 14 detected and safely shut down the unit, 15 isolated the leak, and prevented any hazard 16 or challenge to the public health and safety. 17 The units both remain shut down. 18 Since the time we have the shut 19 units down, we have completed a very thorough 20 and comprehensive analysis of the situation 21 that led to the tube leak on Unit 3. And we 22 used extensive experts, support from around 23 the world in helping us reach our 24 conclusions. Those conclusions were 25 necessary to respond to the Confirmatory 26 Action Letter that the Nuclear Regulatory 27 Commission and Southern California Edison 28 agreed to, and we summarized all of our PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 130 1 conclusions and analysis, and our 2 conservative decision making in the 3 Confirmatory Action Letter response that we 4 submitted in October. Submitted that 5 Confirmatory Action Letter response to the 6 Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and today we 7 are working through the technical evaluation 8 and review process associated with the 9 Confirmatory Action Letter response. 10 The outreach that we have conducted, 11 we take very seriously our responsibility to 12 provide information to the public and to 13 local public officials to ensure that people 14 understand the conclusions and direction that 15 Southern California Edison seeks to take with 16 our nuclear units. 17 We have established a website, 18 www.songscommunity.com. We've also engaged 19 extensively in social media. We've also had 20 over 500 meetings with elected officials, 21 over 100 meetings with community and 22 businesses in the local area, and 15 23 briefings at city councils and county board 24 meetings. 25 Ron Litzinger, the President of 26 Southern California Edison, and I have 27 briefed the local elected officials within 30 28 miles of San Onofre on specific elements of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 131 1 our analysis, our conclusions, and our 2 proposal for safely restarting San Onofre. 3 Also, we have conducted open houses in the 4 local communities where we bring in employees 5 with information and set ourselves up in the 6 community center, something like this, where 7 members of the public can come in and ask 8 questions and participate with our employees 9 and in discussions with us and others on San 10 Onofre to serve as an education base for 11 folks. 12 We conducted three of those last 13 year from the time we submitted the 14 Confirmatory Action Letter to the end of the 15 year. We have another, we have several more 16 planned this year next. The next one will 17 occur on March 20. 18 Our employees, as I mentioned, by 19 participating in open houses, serve as our 20 ambassadors. They carry that information 21 back into local communities in areas where 22 they live and where they contribute to the 23 local communities. Our employees are also a 24 key part of our emergency preparedness 25 organization, our emergency response 26 organization. Our responsibility is to 27 protect the health and safety of the public 28 is demonstrated through our emergency PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 132 1 preparedness and our emergency response 2 organization. We take that responsibility 3 quite seriously as well. 4 Those employees serve on the 5 emergency response organization and are 6 assigned duty positions where they are on 7 call 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 8 weeks a year. To respond to the plan, 9 respond to the facility, and be able to 10 activate our emergency response organization 11 which ensures prompt communication with all 12 of the local jurisdictions and areas. And 13 ensures prompt communication with the Nuclear 14 Regulatory Commission, California Public 15 Utilities Commission, and other groups. So 16 it is those employees that serve in those 17 areas and serve in those functions. 18 We recognize that there are many in 19 our community who do not have English as 20 their first language, and all of our 21 materials, all of our communications are 22 geared towards those who may not have English 23 as their first language. 24 In that regard, we have prepared and 25 sent out the emergency planning brochure that 26 has been sent to all 60,000 businesses and 27 residences within 10 miles of the plant, that 28 is called our Emergency Planning Zone. We PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 133 1 have also done outreach presentations 2 associated with that emergency planning 3 brochure with the local jurisdictions and 4 groups within the area. 5 In addition, because we are a tenant 6 of Camp Pendleton we -- the property that we 7 occupy as part of the Naval Department's 8 property on Camp Pendleton, we have put 9 together a supplement to our emergency 10 planning brochure related to the military 11 families, the Marines and others who live on 12 Camp Pendleton, to make sure they have a 13 clear understanding and direction on our 14 emergency response organization. 15 Schools in the local area, we work 16 with Capistrano Unified School District in 17 providing the cascading brochure to allow 18 teachers, students, and parents to understand 19 the elements of our emergency response 20 procedures and how to appropriately work 21 through a situation like that. We went over 22 that in overview presentations with the 23 Capistrano Unified School District Parent 24 Teachers Association, and we've also invited 25 those teachers and students to visit our 26 plant and come visit our control room 27 simulator. 28 We've participated in multiple PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 134 1 emergency planning forums in Southern 2 California, primarily as a part of the 3 Interjurisdictional Planning Committee, which 4 is a group of nine local governmental and 5 community organizations that serve to form 6 the communications base and the response base 7 for our emergency planning. 8 As being a member of the 9 Jurisdictional Planning Committee we also 10 participate in monthly meetings associated 11 with that. We perform quarterly drills, also 12 siren tests for the emergency planned sirens. 13 We communicate with the public and local 14 officials about those sirens as they are 15 coming up on the calendar. 16 Lastly, I would say we recognize 17 that not all of those communications are 18 likely to get to everyone, despite our 19 efforts. So we worked with the AT&T White 20 Pages to put a special section in the White 21 Pages related to the emergency response plan 22 associated with San Onofre. We've ensured 23 that these White Pages have gone to all of 24 the residents and businesses within our 25 10-mile emergency planning zone around the 26 facility. 27 We view the safety and public 28 interactions that we are obligated to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 135 1 undertake, and we look forward to 2 undertaking, we view those very, very 3 seriously, take pride in what we do. And we 4 take pride in protecting the health and 5 safety of the public. 6 Lastly, all this information that 7 I've talked about tonight as well as our 8 Confirmatory Action Letter response is 9 available on our website, and that website 10 again is www.songscommunity.com. 11 Thank you very much. 12 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 13 I'd like to invite Stephen 14 Mensinger, Mayor Pro Tem, City of Costa Mesa 15 to join us. Since this is our host city, we 16 are very grateful for the facilities being 17 provided to the Commission for the public to 18 come forward today. Mr. Mensinger. 19 STATEMENT OF MR. MENSINGER 20 MR. MENSINGER: Thank you very much. 21 First, I want to welcome everybody 22 to the city of Costa Mesa, and I want to 23 welcome you to our downtown community center. 24 If you haven't been here before, this is just 25 part of Costa Mesa. It is a beautiful city 26 of 116,000 people. We were very proud of it. 27 By the way, we are experiencing a 28 little bit of economic growth here in the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 136 1 community. Retail sales are up, Southwest 2 Plaza is our $2 billion retail giant that 3 generates a lot of revenue. We are grateful 4 to partners like that in helping enhance our 5 tax base. 6 On that note, I welcome Edison here. 7 Edison has been a great partner for the City 8 of Costa Mesa, especially as it relates to 9 energy conservation. And I can speak for a 10 lot of the community, especially the business 11 community. We are very supportive of nuclear 12 power, clean, reliable, and efficient power 13 for our city. We have a lot of businesses, 14 and we have a lot of folks here dependent 15 upon that energy to keep their job base here 16 in Costa Mesa and also in Southern 17 California. 18 With that, I would like to say thank 19 you for coming; and PUC, thank you very much 20 for being here. 21 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Thank you. 22 ALJ DARLING: Next speaker the Mayor of 23 Santa Ana, Mayor Miguel Pulido. 24 If I mispronounce anyone's name, 25 please correct me. 26 STATEMENT OF MR. PULIDO 27 MR. PULIDO: Thank you. Thank you, 28 both to you, your Honor, and to the members PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 137 1 here of the PUC. 2 I just want to tell you that we are 3 concerned about your decision as to what to 4 do on San Onofre. As best I understand, our 5 good friends at Edison are doing the best 6 they can, but this is an old facility. It is 7 a facility that many of us believe it has had 8 its active use. And now the plans are to 9 operate at 35 percent power potentially. 10 And, you know, the concern is that at some 11 point we have to go beyond its useful life. 12 I believe that this is a good 13 opportunity for us to potentially consider 14 some type of a feed-in tariff, for example, 15 for alternative energy. We have done a lot 16 of good things with Edison to look at energy 17 conservation, to look at, you know, solar, to 18 look at energy efficiency, to look at better 19 insulation in buildings, to look at 20 residential programs. In essence, to do 21 things that will not only reduce our carbon 22 footprint that we must do. Because the path 23 that we are on is a very, very difficult one 24 to sustain. And so sometimes when you come 25 to decision points like this it is an 26 opportunity to go, I believe, in a better 27 direction. 28 We can begin to decentralize. There PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 138 1 is a lot of demand potentially to have small 2 storage throughout the community. We are a 3 city of about 350,000 people. Our load is 4 about 600 megawatts. And we've done a lot to 5 reduce already in terms of trash by weight. 6 We are down by 50 percent. 7 In our fleet we have five hydrogen 8 vehicles. I myself have over 300,000 miles. 9 Why does anybody have to travel that much? 10 But 300,000 miles on a plug-in hybrid that we 11 have been working at for about eight years 12 with South Coast Energy Management District. 13 We have a good partnership with our friends 14 at the California Air Resources Board to try 15 to reduce, you know, all mobile emissions and 16 all that. And so power plants become very, 17 very important. 18 And to the extent we can say, look, 19 we are at a point, let's work with our 20 friends at Edison. Let's figure out how to 21 move beyond San Onofre. We still have issues 22 there. What are we going to do with the 23 spent rods, what are we going to do with the 24 buildings that are becoming older and more 25 brittle? 26 We don't have to talk about the 27 steam generators and the vibration and the 28 pipes. That is for the Nuclear Regulatory PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 139 1 Commission. But as the Public Utilities 2 Commission, you guys have tough decisions. I 3 so much thank you. I'm a public servant as 4 well as you. It is tough. It is tough. You 5 go around, you go to different places, you 6 talk to different forks. You try to take it 7 all in, and you try to make a good decision. 8 Look, the folks over at Harvard couldn't come 9 up with better case studies than the 10 real-life studies of the situations we get 11 into. 12 So again, thank you so much for your 13 consideration, for your public service, for 14 your time. Here I really appeal to you. 15 Let's think out of the box. Let's think out 16 of the container in this case, and let's try 17 to move forward. 18 To the extent that you need anything 19 from us, I'm Chair of the Energy Committee 20 for the United States Conference of Mayors. 21 I can help you. I can get to mayors from 22 around the state and around the country, for 23 that matter. But particularly in California, 24 we have a very good communication between the 25 10 largest cities in the state. If there is 26 initiatives you want to try, whether they are 27 in the PG&E territory, SDG&E or here in 28 Southern Cal Edison, we are here to help you. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 140 1 We think you have a very tough job, 2 but you are doing a very good job under chair 3 Mike Peevey and others in the past. You've 4 really moved the ball forward. You've become 5 leaders in the country, and a lot of folks 6 look towards you for leadership. So please 7 continue to lead us in a good direction. 8 Thank you very, very much. 9 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 10 The next speaker Mr. Dean Grose from 11 Los Alamitos council. 12 STATEMENT OF MR. GROSE 13 MR. GROSE: Good afternoon, welcome to 14 Southern California. 15 My name is Dean Grose. And while 16 I'm a member of the city council in one of 17 Orange County's smallest cities, I'm here on 18 behalf of those that elected me to serve and 19 seeking to address the issues of concerns 20 over the viability and need for San Onofre 21 Nuclear Generating Station. 22 I didn't have an opportunity to 23 participate in one of the briefings that they 24 had down at SONGS, and the county information 25 and the diligence that Southern California 26 Edison has exercised thus far looking at Unit 27 2 and trying to solve issues that exist for 28 Unit 3 to be reasonable business decisions PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 141 1 and good stewards from the standpoint of the 2 needs of the communities in terms of power. 3 I understand that the requirement 4 has been opposed by Edison to meet 5 alternative power needs such as solar and 6 wind. The fact remains that the greater 7 Southern California area is heavily dependent 8 on electrical power, and for all of us that 9 output is SONGS. It exists, and has for more 10 many decades, has operated safely supplying 11 the power needs for the growing southland 12 area. To lose that at this particular stage 13 is going to be a major problem, because you 14 can't produce alternate power in a swift, 15 easy manner. 16 I know that SCE is working on 17 alternative generation. The time and 18 consuming logistics just aren't going to 19 happen quickly. So we have to look at what 20 is within our existing reach in this 21 particular case. 22 We've succeeded to get through the 23 peak demands of last summer without rolling 24 blackouts. We experienced those several 25 years back under Governor Gray Davis. The 26 public wasn't happy then about increased rate 27 spikes or the fatal delivery of power. It 28 cost him his job. We have to do this PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 142 1 correctly. 2 As we face the challenges of SONGS, 3 Unit 2 was shut down for routine maintenance 4 and has now been inspected and is ready to go 5 back online, according to the people who are 6 much smarter than I am. While there have 7 been issues with turbines at Mitsubishi, 8 solutions are being formulated. We need to 9 assure that Unit 2 is ready to go and get 10 back into service. 11 We are talking about grid stability. 12 The infrastructure to import additional power 13 to service the area from San Onofre isn't 14 easily accomplished. In fact, several 15 hundreds of thousands of dollars have already 16 been spent by Southern California Edison just 17 in power since Unit 2 has been down. 18 The most important issue I think 19 before the PUC today is what are the 20 contingency plans for SONGS, how do our 21 citizens and constituents know that they are 22 going to have stability as we approach higher 23 demand months that are coming. We have 24 businesses and residents in our community 25 that have critical needs, and a reliable grid 26 source must be assured, such as Unit 2. 27 I installed solar on my house three 28 years ago, so I'm doing my part to try and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 143 1 help in maintaining the grid in the process. 2 But even here in California the sun doesn't 3 shine all the time. When it doesn't I, like 4 so many of my citizens and residents and 5 businesses, and I'm in business in Los 6 Alamitos, half depend on the power grid. My 7 question is: What are going to be the 8 contingency plans? 9 Thank you very much. 10 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: I should take 12 this opportunity to mention that the 13 California Independent System Operator that 14 manages the electrical grid is in the process 15 of completing what I think is the first ever 16 study of how the grid could operate long term 17 in the absence of San Onofre. As soon as 18 that is completed, we are going to be opening 19 a proceeding to look at those contingency 20 plans. 21 People haven't been sitting on their 22 hands. Within a week of the original outage, 23 the governor's office put together a 24 multiagency team that worked on a number of 25 initiatives that we were able to get in place 26 last summer, including bringing back the 27 Huntington Beach plant for one more year. 28 That is no longer available as a generating PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 144 1 facility, but we are working on a plan to 2 reconfigure that to provide voltage support 3 even though it can no longer -- no longer 4 permitted for air emissions. 5 There are a variety of things that 6 Edison is doing with its transmission grid, 7 generally minor upgrades that can provide 8 pretty quickly. But again, as I said 9 earlier, if San Onofre is out this summer, 10 there will be calls for conservation and 11 programs available that customers can 12 participate in. 13 But as soon as that ISO study is 14 completed, we are expecting it late March or 15 early April, we will be looking at that. 16 Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric will give 17 us their comments. There will be an open 18 proceeding for other parties to come in and 19 give their thoughts as well. 20 As we are dealing with the economic 21 issues we are never losing sight of the 22 importance of the reliability of the grid for 23 Southern California. 24 ALJ DARLING: Okay. The next speaker, 25 Barbara Kogerman, Mayor of Laguna Hills. 26 STATEMENT OF MS. KOGERMAN 27 MS. KOGERMAN: Thank you, Commissioner 28 Florio and Judge Darling. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 145 1 I am Barbara Kogerman, Mayor of 2 Laguna Hills. I have now had the opportunity 3 to attend briefings at SONGS, and I think 4 "briefings" is probably a misnomer. They 5 have been quite lengthy and quite 6 informative. And I've been very impressed by 7 the thoughtful deliberative process that 8 Southern California Edison is undertaking. 9 I am concerned about fear mongering 10 and half truths on the safety front. Nuclear 11 activists will talk about fear for public 12 safety, but what they don't tell you is that 13 there has never been an event at San Onofre 14 that resulted in a need of public action. 15 There are some nuclear plants around the 16 country that have been shut down for safety 17 reasons, but San Onofre is not one of them. 18 The NRC has never shut down SONGS 19 for safety reasons. And on January 31, 2012, 20 when operators detected a leak, they operated 21 quickly and safely to shut down the unit. 22 The system worked exactly as it should have 23 worked and no one was injured. 24 Now, SCE is fully cooperating with 25 the NRC to ensure that San Onofre is safely 26 brought back online. As the mayor of Laguna 27 Hills, I support a safe restart of Unit 2. 28 The NRC has a good process, and I say let the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 146 1 process work. We are interested in safety 2 and reliability. I understand that is your 3 purview. And in the interest of safety and 4 reliability,. 5 I encourage you, again, to let the 6 process work. Thank you. 7 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 8 Mr. Ron Garcia, the Mayor of Brea. 9 STATEMENT OF MR. GARCIA 10 MR. GARCIA: Judge, Commissioner, thank 11 you very much. 12 As you may know, Brea is at the 13 north end. We like to think of ourselves the 14 gatekeeper for those LA County folks. We 15 have a mall there, and we try to stop them 16 there to spend as much money as we can. 17 I'm a native Californian, born and 18 raised in California. I remember driving 19 down the freeway when the plants were first 20 being built. It is interesting that I've 21 come full circle, because I remember as a 22 young boy, I'm 65 now, a young boy of 17 or 23 18, remembering that my parents said, well, 24 as we pass this nuclear facility you have to 25 hold your breath because you can't breathe in 26 the air. And not having a big lung capacity, 27 I was wondering how long I would have to. 28 Here it is 65 or 50 years later, I'm standing PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 147 1 in front in support of good, clean, safe 2 start-up of nuclear facility there. 3 I served my country in the United 4 States Navy, stationed in San Diego. Went to 5 boot camp there, and had to -- attended a 6 program out of Coronado Island before I went 7 and served in Vietnam. I served 2-1/2 years 8 in Vietnam from the time I left at 18, 19 9 years old. I saw that facility being built. 10 And while I was gone, I, in fact, I had to 11 become a nuclear potential cleanup person on 12 the vessels that I served on. I came home 13 late '68 and '69 and saw that the facilities 14 were completed. Today, as was indicated, I'm 15 the mayor of the city. 16 We are not on this particular grid, 17 but we look at it holistically. Our 18 community is proud to say that we are the 19 largest producer, municipal producer of solar 20 energy in all of Orange County, but we are 21 only 40,000 community. We only are about 22 nine miles. We just started this process 23 about a year and a half ago. We've reduced 24 our carbon footprint by 40 percent going 25 solar. 26 So it is obvious that somewhere in 27 the future there will be a cleaner source. 28 At this particular point now, we have a plant PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 148 1 that is down there. As stated earlier by 2 speakers, the problem was determined by the 3 engineers and the people that were 4 responsible there to shut the facility down. 5 Nobody came in and said you needed to do 6 this. So the system worked. 7 We are, of course, asking -- or what 8 they are asking and we are supportive of is 9 that there would be a five-month period, from 10 what I understand, and go up to a maximum of 11 70 percent capacity. That certainly seems 12 like a reasonable capacity and reasonable 13 amount of time for you in the capacity, that 14 capacity that you sit in and the agencies 15 that have responsibility and authority to 16 observe this process and evaluate it. I 17 think you are going to find that the Southern 18 California Edison Company will meet their 19 goals of being able to continue on. Again, I 20 said we are not on the grid, but we are part 21 of the system, an ecological system. The 22 energy is there. 23 We've done our share up in Brea. We 24 know that that energy -- the bullet went over 25 our head last summer. I can't guarantee, 26 nobody can guarantee that that one fact will 27 occur again. If my fellow communities out 28 there need that energy source, they are going PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 149 1 to have to get it. 2 I sit as Vice Chair for the National 3 League of Cities, Community Economic 4 Development Committee. That encompasses part 5 of what we refer to as regional housing needs 6 assessment projects. There are going to be a 7 lot of houses that are going to be built 8 right away. 9 There has been a pent-up demand. In 10 fact, we are supportive of a bill, Bill 116. 11 That would extend the tentative track 12 approval for houses that have been approved 13 but haven't been built because of the 14 economy, and we were asking for that 15 tentative approval to be extended. Because 16 when it turns around, we need those sticks to 17 go in the ground as soon as they can so the 18 energy requirements for those houses to be 19 built is going to be there. There is a turn 20 around. We certainly don't want that to be 21 held up. We certainly want the energy to be 22 there for those houses and those families and 23 those roofs to be over those children's 24 heads. 25 I'm not speaking as the Mayor of 26 Brea, but as a citizen, somebody who used to 27 holding their breath. I breathe all the way 28 through there now. So I'm very comfortable PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 150 1 with it, but we want the oversight. Trust 2 and verify. That is what we would like. 3 So I am personally supportive of 4 this. The five-month period seems 5 reasonable, but -- to reach its full 6 capacity. We ask that your folks to do their 7 job and make sure that it is safe. We 8 support it. 9 Thank you for your time. Thank you 10 for the hard work that you are going to put 11 in this. It is nice to be on this end here 12 as opposed to your end for this evening. 13 Thank you again for your time and your work. 14 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. You are to be 15 congratulated for those conservation 16 achievements. 17 MR. GARCIA: They were expensive, but 18 it was worth it. 19 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Matthew Harper, City 20 Council, City of Huntington Beach. 21 STATEMENT OF MR. HARPER 22 MR. HARPER: My name is Matthew Harper. 23 I'm a son of a veteran that trained there in 24 Camp Pendleton before he served in Vietnam. 25 I currently am the Mayor Pro Tem of the City 26 of Huntington Beach. 27 The City of Huntington Beach is, of 28 course, the only city here in Orange County PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 151 1 where more electricity is generated than 2 consumed. I think it is important to point 3 out a few things that will help put this into 4 context, and that is that many of our 5 citizens agree, that don't force us to carry 6 the entire burden of electricity within 7 Orange County. 8 Our power plant allows -- it is such 9 an institution and such a part of the history 10 of city of Huntington Beach, that actually 11 the nearby high school is Edison High School 12 named for the previous owner. And, in fact, 13 their mascot is the Chargers. So I want to 14 note that we've been carrying the burden for 15 quite some time. It is very important that 16 that burden is shared across the region. I 17 think that has been represented to other 18 organizations about what may or may not be 19 the position. 20 Our counsel has not taken a position 21 with regards to SONGS. I'm here speaking 22 today. I would point out that because of our 23 relationship with the AES Power Plant, if our 24 councilmembers, in fact, took a position 25 against SONGS that they would face certain 26 defeat at the next election because of how 27 many people are aware of their nearby 28 neighbor with AES. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 152 1 I think it is important to note just 2 that Huntington Beach and San Onofre together 3 allow the remaining cities of Orange County 4 to be able to enjoy our electrical grid 5 without having to have full-sized power 6 plants distributed throughout the county in 7 order to maintain the grid. 8 I would like to urge you to work 9 with Edison to bring back San Onofre Nuclear 10 Generating Station so we can have the 11 reliability across the region so the burden 12 is indeed shared across the region. 13 Thank you. 14 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 15 We will be proceeding with 16 individual members of the public. You will 17 have three minutes each to speak. I'm going 18 to read out several names at a time, probably 19 about five, have you come forward so the 20 Public Advisor's staff can facilitate the 21 most efficient use of time in making sure 22 everyone gets up and speak. 23 The first five speakers, Faith 24 Bautista, Joe Como, Tim Keenan, Uma Kuchmia 25 and Weston Labar. Please come forward, 26 starting with Ms. Bautista. 27 STATEMENT OF MS. BAUTISTA 28 MS. BAUTISTA: Good evening, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 153 1 Commissioner Florio and Judge Darling. I 2 appreciate the opportunity to speak here 3 today on behalf of San Diegans and 4 Californians who are unclear on the impact of 5 the nuclear energy. 6 As the testimony we filed on 7 February 8th in this case states, we just 8 completed a survey of 160 San Diego 9 ratepayers on San Onofre nuclear power. 10 Since the survey appears to be the only 11 survey made of Southern California residents' 12 reactions to San Onofre nuclear issues, I 13 would like to briefly discuss it. 14 First, I want to thank the 15 Commissioner for recognizing the importance 16 of utility education and outreach to all 17 consumers and ratepayers of Edison and SDG&E. 18 Fifty San Diego ratepayers asked me 19 as the President of National Asian American 20 Coalition to testify for them as well. I'll 21 be submitting their 50 names. I hope this 22 will, therefore, provide more times for 23 others who wish to testify. And by the way, 24 San Diegans also wants to have a hearing 25 since they are part of this case. 26 The recent nuclear disaster in Japan 27 demonstrates the importance of an educated 28 public. My personal experience in the PG&E PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 154 1 San Bruno gas explosion case also 2 demonstrates this. The perception of safety 3 is often as important as safety itself. 4 I appreciate the report of Southern 5 California Edison under public -- under 6 outreach; but sadly, they need to do more to 7 recognize the importance. But I have 8 confidence that CEO Jessie Knight and 9 President Ron Litzinger after this hearing, 10 they will move forward with comprehensive 11 community education and outreach program. 12 I just want to make a comment that 13 on the White Pages, I don't remember the last 14 time I even opened White Pages. I don't even 15 know whether people look at the White Pages. 16 So I think it might not be really effective 17 type of outreach. 18 And for the Southern California, 19 just like today we met with the Burmese 20 community. There are 300,000 Burmese in 21 Southern California, Cambodian, Laotian, 22 Filipino, Vietnamese. They have to be really 23 mindful of the subethnic group, especially 24 when you spoke about the English as a second 25 language. I think the importance of that has 26 to be a top priority. 27 So the NAAC survey completed in 28 January in San Diego County surveyed 161 San PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 155 1 Diego ratepayers. In summary, this is what 2 the people had to say. 3 Ninety-seven percent stated they had 4 no information or needed far more information 5 relating to the impact of nuclear plants, 6 including rate increases and safety. None 7 said they had enough information. 8 Number two, when asked if they 9 favored nuclear energy as a source of 10 electricity, two-thirds said they did not 11 have enough information. 12 Number 3, over 90 percent surveyed 13 said no one from any utility provided them 14 with sufficient information on nuclear energy 15 as it affected their electricity bills or 16 safety. 17 Number four, this is very 18 frightening, 91 percent said that they did 19 not even know how to get the information on 20 what to do in a nuclear emergency. 21 So in a nutshell, this hearing is 22 wonderful, but they have to do a massive 23 outreach in every language, especially for 24 the immigrants as English as a second 25 language. 26 Thank you so much. 27 ALJ DARLING: Next speaker Mr. Joe 28 Como, Acting Director of the Division of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 156 1 Ratepayer Advocates. It is a division 2 that -- I guess I'll let you describe it. 3 I'll give you an extra 30 seconds. But they 4 are a division that has ratepayers' interests 5 first and foremost. So he is your rep here 6 in the proceeding. 7 Mr. Como. 8 STATEMENT OF MR. COMO 9 MR. COMO: Thank you, Judge Darling for 10 that compliment. Thank you, Commissioner 11 Florio. 12 DRA, as the judge said, is the 13 ratepayer advocate. We were a division at 14 the California Public Utilities Commission -- 15 (Mr. Como turns to address audience) -- I 16 feel like I should be talking to the people. 17 ALJ DARLING: Sure. 18 MR. COMO: That -- we represent the 19 people, ratepayers of investor-owned 20 utilities. And it is our mission, our 21 statutory mission to advocate for the lowest 22 possible rates consistent with safe and 23 reliable service levels. 24 Since we were a party and very 25 active, and actually I thank ALJ Darling and 26 Commission Florio for doing a great job in 27 trying to figure out these issues. I wanted 28 to say that -- I'll just keep it to two PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 157 1 issues. 2 One is that the -- I ask you not to 3 rush the CPUC's investigation in this. The 4 NRC is coming out with their report probably 5 in April or May, I understand. And so we 6 would like you to fully digest that before 7 you come to the conclusion which you will 8 come to. 9 The more major point I want to make 10 is something I've made before, in that under 11 traditional ratemaking principles, as you 12 know, a utility has to demonstrate that their 13 facilities are useful before they can go into 14 rate base. What that means in normal 15 parlance is that they are not supposed to be 16 charging money to the public unless they are 17 actually providing a service. When a plant 18 doesn't generate electricity -- 19 (Applause) 20 MR. COMO: The point I want to make is 21 a year has gone by. I've asked the 22 Commission to please take it out of rate 23 base. Because if the plant was being built 24 and was not generating electricity, you would 25 not put it into rate base in the first place. 26 There is no reason for it to be in rate base 27 now. 28 About a billion dollars has gone PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 158 1 sort of under the bridge already on the 2 amount of money that is still being collected 3 for San Onofre from both Southern California 4 Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric. It is 5 about $700 million for Edison and about $200 6 million for San Diego Gas & Electric. 7 I know you are going to address this 8 issue, but there is no reason not to take it 9 out of rate base now for the foreseeable 10 future, because the only issue that has to be 11 determined is if the plant is operating or 12 not. 13 As Mr. Dietrich had said before, the 14 units are shut down. It is a no brainer, as 15 far as I'm concerned as far as from this day 16 on, until the plant either comes into service 17 or retires. 18 Thank you. 19 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Keenan. 20 STATEMENT OF MR. KEENAN 21 MR. KEENAN: Good evening. My name is 22 Tim Keenan. I'm the former mayor for the 23 City of Cypress, California, in Orange 24 County. I'm currently the Chairman of the 25 Board of the Cypress Chamber of Commerce 26 representing 250 members and 20,000 27 businesses. I'm a businessowner myself in 28 the city of Cypress. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 159 1 I'm here to thank you for this 2 process, because you need to hear from all 3 the constituents that are involved in this, 4 and that the -- our energy users. 5 While I support conservation and I 6 support efforts for alternative energy, 7 getting away from carbon base to energy is 8 important. And I think that that is why I 9 support the bringing back SONGS online, 10 because nuclear energy is clearly one of the 11 best ways to get away from the carbon-based 12 energy process. 13 The PUC says that we need to be 14 prudent and conserve, but the reality is we 15 are a growing county. We are the fifth most 16 populous county in the nation, 3 million 17 people and growing here in Orange County. It 18 will continue to grow. Because we are the 19 Southern California Basin, and because of 20 concerns about air quality. There will 21 never, ever, ever be another generating plant 22 built here on the basin. 23 So yes, we can look at solar and 24 when the sun shines, yes we can look at wind 25 when the wind blows. But the reality is that 26 we need SONGS back online if it is determined 27 to be safe, because we need that consistent 28 power for our businesses, for the reliability PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 160 1 of energy. And we are concerned about the 2 cost of energy to live here in Southern 3 California. It is expensive, and this is 4 just one of the ongoing costs of being here. 5 So that is what I have to say. 6 Thank you very much. 7 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 8 Uma Kuchmia. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. KUCHMIA 10 MS. KUCHMIA: Kuchmia, and you did a 11 very good job. Thank you. 12 I want to thank you both for coming 13 in, sitting through this arduous process. 14 You have many stakeholders to satisfy, and I 15 know there is not too much new I can tell you 16 from what you've heard today. 17 However, there is something I want 18 to remind you of is that the old future is 19 gone. We cannot continue the way we have 20 been continuing, that should be obvious to 21 everybody. Any house that is built now 22 should be totally economic in terms of its 23 use of energy sources. So conservation is 24 the thing that should be our next step. It 25 is the easiest step, because everybody can do 26 it and everybody understands it. 27 I want to also remind you that there 28 are a number of bottom lines. SCE has its PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 161 1 own bottom. It's a personal bottom line if 2 there is an accident. How many people in 3 this room would survive? We have no idea. 4 The environment is a bottom line. How much 5 of our land that grows crops or services for 6 others would be destroyed? How many animals 7 would be destroyed? The economy is a bottom 8 line. How many businesses would be 9 destroyed? What value would the land have 10 to the landowners if there was an accident? 11 So I think I heard that your job is 12 to provide sensible options for the future? 13 I may be putting words into your mouths. I 14 wanted to say that nuclear is not a sensible 15 option. Is there any other industry where -- 16 that can't dispose of its waste and can't 17 dispose of its waste for a million years? 18 I'm not sure what the timeline is, but it is 19 certainly beyond our lifetime. 20 And I know that Southern California 21 Edison is trying very hard. However, what 22 industry has to work so hard to protect the 23 public from its own -- very own danger? See, 24 this doesn't compute. Yeah, we are working 25 hard to protect you, but why do you have to 26 protect us against ourselves? I mean we are 27 in a human mind warp here. This is not a 28 safe form of energy, and we can't dispose of PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 162 1 the waste. That is not a sensible 2 alternative for the future. It is not a 3 sensible alternative for now. 4 (Applause) 5 MS. KUCHMIA: As far as protecting us 6 from the danger, well, yeah, we haven't had a 7 nuclear accident yet. But we have a very 8 dangerous situation in which a steam 9 generator and the coup de maître that were 10 put in place didn't work, you know? So we 11 had just a little accident this time, but 12 that is the danger. We've already 13 experienced the danger. We can fix it this 14 time, but what will it be next time? This is 15 not a sensible alternative for the future, 16 and putting more money into nuclear energy 17 means we are not exploring other resources. 18 I cannot believe that just the few 19 things that we've thought of already, you 20 know, the solar power and wind power and 21 everything is everything that human beings 22 can come up with? I'm sure there is a lot 23 more in the pipeline that I don't know about. 24 I'm not a scientist, but every so often I 25 hear about, wow, somebody is making oil out 26 of microbes, you know? There must be more. 27 But as long as we can keep going 28 down this path and saying, you know, we've PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 163 1 got to do it this way, it is not the way. 2 What we are doing is going down a murderous 3 path. We are murdering ourselves. We are 4 destroying ourselves. One accident, as you 5 saw in Fukushima, is all it takes. 6 So thank you very much. 7 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Weston Labar. 8 STATEMENT OF MR. LABAR 9 MR. LABAR: I'm Weston Labar. I'm here 10 representing the Long Beach Area Chamber of 11 Commerce. I'm their consultant for public 12 policy and economic development. And our 13 over 1100 members support bringing SONGS back 14 online. 15 We have serious concerns with the 16 energy future in California, both the rates 17 and the reliability. Moving forward, right 18 now businesses are just struggling to get out 19 of an economic recession. And by adding more 20 rate costs makes it hard for them to employ 21 more Californians. And as we know, 22 Californians are lagging behind in the 23 recovery process nationwide. 24 The other thing I'd like to bring up 25 is through AB -- we support Long Beach as one 26 of our members. And through AB 32, they are 27 actively pursuing ways to green the corp and 28 reduce their carbon footprint. One of the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 164 1 things they are going to be doing is plugging 2 in the ships as opposed to having them run 3 into ports. That is going to be a huge 4 consumption of energy. We don't know what 5 that is going to be exactly. 6 As they look at closing different 7 power, as Cal ISO determines where the grid 8 is going to be drawn, they look at other 9 plants that I've gotten to look at. I know 10 AES has a Redondo Beach plant, Hunting is 11 going off-line. As we look at these other 12 plants that might be shutting down, it makes 13 commonsense to us right now to extend and 14 renew the SONGS power plant. And we really 15 hope that you will consider that, because our 16 business community is fearful of the cost 17 that it is going to have for them, especially 18 the small businesses. 19 Thank you. 20 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 21 The next speaker will be Larry 22 Kramer, City Council of San Juan Capistrano. 23 I just want to go ahead and identify 24 the following five speakers to come forward, 25 Yoko Collin, Steven Mendoza, Mike Aguirre, Ed 26 Fawcett, and Dr. Marilyn Ditty. 27 Let me take a moment to check in 28 with our court reporter. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 165 1 (Off the record discussion) 2 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 3 STATEMENT OF MR. KRAMER 4 MR. KRAMER: Thank you. My name is 5 Larry Kramer. I'm the former mayor and 6 currently on the city council from San Juan 7 Capistrano. So I live in fairly close 8 proximity of San Onofre. Also, my wife works 9 in San Clemente every day as a volunteer. 10 I'm speaking for myself this evening. 11 As a background, I have a degree in 12 electrical engineering, and I served in the 13 Navy for 30 years in nuclear submarines, 14 including three commanding submarines for 15 three times. 16 I've attended every local meeting 17 the NRC held on SONGS since the leak 18 occurred. I believe that some persons made 19 mistakes, but I'm hopeful we won't have to 20 suffer as a result of those errors. I'm also 21 hopeful the NRC will find it is safe to 22 restart SONGS Unit 2 and it will be up and 23 running by this summer. 24 From what I have learned, Edison is 25 taking precautions to ensure that what 26 happened with Unit 3 will not happen with 27 Unit 2, in addition, proposing operating only 28 70 percent. They have conducted excessive PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 166 1 testing in Plug 2, the area where the damage 2 was found in Unit 3. 3 Nothing is without some risk. We do 4 not live in a risk-free society. The human 5 race has never lived in a risk-free society. 6 There is always the possibility there would 7 be another tube leak, but the operators of 8 SONGS demonstrated they are very capable of 9 taking quick and corrective action should it 10 occur. 11 The amount of radiation that leaked 12 from before was not hazardous to the workers 13 of SONGS or the general public. If people 14 are really worried about radiation, they 15 probably shouldn't fly in an aircraft. They 16 are probably going to receive more radiation 17 from one flight across the country than they 18 will receive in their entire life living 19 somewhere near SONGS. 20 Not starting up SONGS would have 21 significant short-term and long-term negative 22 consequences. Last summer we had a power 23 station at Huntington Beach to cushion the 24 loss of power and also to provide 25 stabilization. That is not available this 26 summer. This summer, this past summer was 27 not terribly hot. We had pretty good 28 weather, so power demand was not excessive. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 167 1 There were no major fires which interferes 2 with any of the transmission lines last year. 3 It is one of the few years we haven't had 4 major fires. 5 I've lived for many years in 6 countries that had frequent interruptions of 7 power. It is not pleasant, nor is it good 8 for any aspects of the economy. Our economy 9 in the United States is just coming back. In 10 San Juan Capistrano we are facing major 11 economic challenge for the next couple of 12 years as our major freeway interchange is 13 being rebuilt, which cuts our town pretty 14 much in half. Thus, if we had a problem with 15 power, it would be extremely challenging to 16 our small city. The addition of unreliable 17 power would keep our business community back 18 for many years. 19 Some people talk about conservation, 20 which is great, and alternate source of 21 power, which I support. Conservation only 22 goes so far. And as our population and 23 economy recovers and grows, at best we will 24 see the rise of power demand lessen but will 25 still continue to go up. 26 Federals are pushing for more 27 electrical vehicles. People talked about 28 they have plug-in vehicles. That is all PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 168 1 coming off the grid. That demand will 2 increase significantly as we try to keep 3 pollution down in California. 4 In looking at alternative source of 5 power, we require sources that are 6 baseloaded. Solar and wind are nice, but are 7 only good when the sun shines and wind blows. 8 Why when they have a lot of solar power they 9 are now restricting its installation, since 10 when the sun goes behind cloud there is a 11 rapid need for some baseload to come up very 12 quickly. We have to be very careful we don't 13 depend on those intermittent sources of 14 power. 15 Electricity generated and used, as 16 you are well aware of there is very little 17 storage of it. There is no limit. The only 18 way I know is pump storage, which is a plant 19 that I worked with at one time, and 20 batteries. Also, alternatives must either be 21 coal, oil, or gas-fueled power plants. All 22 of these emit greenhouse gases. And if you 23 believe they contribute to global warming, 24 then you would not find them to be a viable 25 alternative. 26 Hydroelectric power is clean but 27 very limited in California. The possibility 28 of getting licensed for any of those in PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 169 1 California will likely take years. 2 I don't know how many people around 3 here want another power plant nearby. I 4 think that would take a while. They 5 attempted to put in a peaker plant in Ladera 6 Ranch and that was protested strongly, and 7 they did not put that in. 8 Other alternatives are to bring in 9 power from outside our state where the 10 environmental laws are less stringent than 11 they are here. How many people want more 12 power lines going through their neighborhood, 13 through their cities? We were in the 14 process -- or San Diego Gas & Electric wants 15 to upgrade some of our transmission lines 16 within San Juan Capistrano, and that is 17 meeting significant opposition. All of these 18 things take many years to accomplish. We can 19 always go out and purchase our own 20 gas-powered generators. If you like 21 pollution, you will love those generators. 22 In terms of working with SONGS, with 23 respect to if there is an action or something 24 like this goes along, our working 25 relationship with SONGS has been excellent 26 over the years and continues to be. We meet 27 with them on a very frequent basis to make 28 sure we are up to date and know exactly what PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 170 1 is going on. 2 In my opinion, nuclear power plants 3 have a great track record in the United 4 States, it is safe, baseloaded, a clean 5 source of energy. And I urge the NRC to 6 allow SONGS to restart Unit 2. 7 Thank you very much. 8 ALJ DARLING: Ms. Collin. 9 STATEMENT OF MS. COLLIN 10 MS. COLLIN: My name is Yoko Collin. I 11 live in Lake Forest. 12 After attending the CPUC public 13 hearing, I was very concerned about how 14 people don't understand about the danger of 15 the nuclear energy. Nuclear spent fields are 16 extremely radioactive, and they need to be 17 stored more than 50,000 years, I'm not sure, 18 100,000 years. Think about the dangers of 19 our civilization, human civilization, 20 culture, maybe about 4,000 years or so. 21 In this country we even don't have 22 cities to storage nuclear waste. We don't 23 have technology for remove the toxin out of 24 the spent field. There is no manmade 25 building that lasts long enough. 26 Chernobyl accident happened about 27 27 years ago and the building is already in bad 28 shape. They are making another cover over PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 171 1 the old one. 2 We already have so much nuclear 3 waste in this country. Do you think it is 4 okay to create more nuclear waste and give 5 all the burden to our children? Or is it the 6 time that we need to shift to renewable 7 energy? How about we change our lifestyle. 8 Do you know what happened on March 9 11th, 2011? Nuclear accident of Fukushima 10 Daiichi Power Plant. It is not over yet. It 11 is still releasing huge amount of radiation 12 into the air and into the Pacific Ocean. 13 And then from last year there are 14 about 38,000 children under 18 in Fukushima 15 have tested for thyroid abnormalities, and 16 then by December more than 40,000 of those 17 children have some kind of thyroid 18 normalities. 19 And then I just get latest news that 20 Fukushima Prefecture just released on 21 February 13th, out of 1300 tested children 22 now 3 children have cancer. And now have 23 more 7 positive cases. They conducted second 24 test and positive. So more than 90 25 percentage they have thyroid cancer. And 26 then in the world wide, thyroid cancer is 27 known very rarely happen in children, 1 in 1 28 million or less. So how many percentage is PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 172 1 going to happen? And then the study show 2 more than 50 children possibly have thyroid, 3 some kind of cancer. 4 My family live Tokyo, which is more 5 than 180 miles away from Fukushima Daiichi, 6 but the land is (inaudible). And I don't 7 feel safe to take my children there to see my 8 family. I lost my home country who is no 9 longer safe over there. I lost my food 10 culture as well. 11 Did you know taking x-rays and 12 inhaling radioactive particle are not same 13 thing? When accident happened, all those 14 dangerous radioactive isotopes are released 15 into the air. (Inaudible) all over and they 16 will blow up again. And we are going to 17 inhale them, those radiation, and we eat 18 them. And I call radiation explosion. 19 ALJ DARLING: Ms. Collin, can you wrap 20 it up, please. 21 MS. COLLIN: Almost finished. 22 ALJ DARLING: Time is up. 23 MS. COLLIN: Nuclear accident can 24 happened everywhere, but San Onofre Nuclear 25 Plant is the most expected as the next 26 danger. We don't have evacuation plan, nor a 27 way out. Fifty miles is not enough. 28 So can we evacuate safe? Can we use PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 173 1 free waste? How can we protect our children? 2 We must shut down San Onofre Nuclear Power 3 Plant. 4 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Steven Mendoza. 5 STATEMENT OF MR. MENDOZA 6 MR. MENDOZA: Thank you, your Honor, 7 and Commissioner. 8 I'm here to talk about reliable 9 energy. I want to take a moment to describe 10 how stable grid is important to our city and 11 the City of Los Alamitos. 12 Los Alamitos is on that grid, who 13 else is on that grid with us? The Joint 14 Forces Training Base. They provide core 15 emergency response to all of California, the 16 hub of California International Guard. Who 17 else is on the grid in California? Los 18 Alamitos Medical Center. They provide key 19 emergency services to West Orange County, 20 including all seniors and Leisure World. 21 Aerospace employers are in Los Alamitos, 22 necessary street lights and traffic signals 23 and all of the cities that have spoken today. 24 Energy is necessary, local energy is 25 even more necessary. The City of Los 26 Alamitos, its base, hospitals, schools, 27 employers and citizens rely upon a stable 28 grid. Again, reliable electricity is PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 174 1 necessary for us. 2 In lieu of optional sites that all 3 parties can agree upon, Orange County is ill 4 prepared to offer replacement locations for 5 new generating stations. We've heard that a 6 few times today. Until there is a 7 replacement plan for future generating 8 stations that could obtain countywide 9 support, or even support of all parties in 10 this room, all current forms of electricity 11 should remain available. 12 Thank you. 13 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Aguirre. 14 STATEMENT OF MR. AGUIRRE 15 MR. AGUIRRE: I'm here in my capacity 16 as a ratepayer in San Diego. 17 I want to explain to you from the 18 heart why the public has no confidence in you 19 to make the decisions or to protect the 20 public. Why the public has no confidence in 21 you to protect the public interest. 22 First of all, it was the PUC that 23 approved this debacle. You are the ones that 24 authorized four new steam generators for the 25 old ones, because the old ones had two 26 problems than new ones and worsening two 27 problems. And that was done on your watch, 28 and you are responsible for having made PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 175 1 mistakes. 2 Secondly, you allowed Southern Cal 3 Edison and continue to allow them to charge 4 in rates the full cost of the steam 5 generators even though they had completed 6 installation in February 2011. And they were 7 supposed to come back under the order that 8 you are not enforcing, your own order, upon 9 completion, and that hasn't happened. And 10 you are allowing them to charge hundreds of 11 millions of dollars without complying with 12 your own orders. 13 ALJ Darling, during the general rate 14 case you failed to initiate an OII. You knew 15 about what happened with San Onofre in 16 January. You should have taken action then. 17 You used the lame excuse that testimony had 18 been completed. And in so acting you gave 19 SCE -- you gave SCE the opportunity -- you 20 gave SCE the opportunity to argue that rates 21 can't be -- that costs can't be taken out of 22 rates until 2015, because you didn't bring it 23 up in the 2012 general rate case. 24 Now, SCE is making a mockery out of 25 these proceedings. First of all, you didn't 26 pay for this building. You didn't pay 27 anything. The only party that paid anything 28 to be in any of these facilities here was PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 176 1 SCE. Yes, yes, you didn't pay a dime. Not 2 only that, they are providing meals to 3 security officers, peace officers in their 4 private little club back here. That is a 5 mockery. 6 Last week SCE, or at least its 7 contractor Shaw Stone and Webster, gave 8 Costco cards through the San Diego County 9 Federation of Labor to get a bunch of 10 laborers that don't even work at SCE to come 11 up. 12 We are going to have to go to court, 13 and we are going to have to go to court right 14 away. Because the public can't take the risk 15 of more disfunction, more failure to protect 16 the public interest by allowing you to 17 continue. You may win, but we will make the 18 effort to take you to court and to make the 19 case that you have violated mandatory duties. 20 Thank you. 21 ALJ DARLING: There were several 22 misstatements of fact in that, which I'm 23 going to address only a couple them. 24 One, this is not a matter for the 25 general rate case. An ALJ has no authority 26 to initiate an OII. That was initiated by 27 the full Commission following statute 455.5 28 of the Public Utilities Code. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 177 1 This investigation was driven by 2 Commissioner Florio from the moment that the 3 authority arose, and we are proceeding on all 4 of these fronts, as I described, if you had 5 been here at the beginning. 6 Second of all, no one paid this, no 7 ratepayers' money, no utility money. This is 8 a free venue provided by the City of Costa 9 Mesa. And it was chosen because it was free, 10 and because it has good parking, and because 11 it is easy to find. I want to make that 12 clear. 13 I don't know who is buying food for 14 who, and that is not anything to do with the 15 Commission. 16 But those two particular facts I 17 wanted to address. 18 I think Commissioner Florio has a 19 comment or two about the OII. 20 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Yes. Again, the 21 timing of the proceeding was driven by a 22 statute. We actually moved a few weeks 23 earlier than the statute to get the 24 proceeding under way. 25 I will leave it at that. 26 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Fawcett. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. FAWCETT 28 MR. FAWCETT: Your Honor, Commissioner, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 178 1 my name is Ed Fawcett, President of the Costa 2 Mesa Chamber of Commerce. Thanks for this 3 opportunity to speak regarding San Onofre 4 Nuclear Generating Station. 5 Rather than restating a myriad of 6 statistics regarding SONGS' generating stats, 7 the large number of nuclear generating 8 stations operating safely throughout the 9 United States, or any of the stats that 10 demonstrate the need for SONGS Unit 2 reactor 11 to be returned to operation in a safe and 12 controlled manner, instead, I want to speak 13 first as a businessperson concerned about 14 California's recovery from a recession that 15 has truly not gone away. Also, as a lifetime 16 resident of Southern California, one who 17 watched the building of San Onofre and has 18 benefited by its safe operations all of those 19 subsequent years. 20 Businesses and residents both 21 benefit by the reliable 24 power -- 24 hour 22 power generation provided -- that was 23 provided by San Onofre power that cannot be 24 adequately replaced by alternatives that 25 require wind or sun. There is a place for 26 wind and solar generation, but not to replace 27 nuclear. In fact, only with SONGS on line do 28 we have the opportunity to explore PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 179 1 alternative sources of energy. 2 In addition, San Onofre cannot be 3 replaced by bringing on line less efficient 4 AG air polluting plants in Huntington Beach 5 and Carlsbad. These plants were retired for 6 good reason. Without reliable power that San 7 Onofre brings to Southern California, 8 businesses cannot be assured of their needs 9 being met, jobs will not be created, workers 10 will not find employment, and the region will 11 continue to suffer in a recession that need 12 not be. 13 Southern California Edison has 14 served the electrical needs of this area 15 quite well. Personally, I would bet on their 16 performance record to safely bring Unit 2 17 reactor back online in a controlled fashion 18 that Edison has proposed. The longer SONGS 19 remains off-line, the longer the recession 20 will brutalize California businesses and 21 residents. 22 Please do what you have to do to 23 work with Edison to bring Unit 2 back online 24 in a safe and controlled manner. 25 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 26 Mayor of City of South El Monte, 27 Mr. Louis Aguinaga. I'm sorry, did I miss 28 you? Doctor? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 180 1 MS. DITTY: Marilyn Ditty. 2 ALJ DARLING: I'm sorry, my mistake. 3 STATEMENT OF MS. DITTY 4 MS. DITTY: Thank you. 5 Judge Darling and Commissioner 6 Florio, I'm Dr. Marilyn Ditty. I'm the CEO 7 of Age Well Senior Services. We provide all 8 the county support services for 14 cities 9 from Costa Mesa actually down to San 10 Clemente. 11 This is my 35th year. I have been 12 down to the plant many, many times. And 13 we've worked with Southern California Edison 14 to come up with what they considered a 15 reasonable evacuation plan in case of an 16 emergency, because we know where all the 17 homebound seniors are. We do all the Meals 18 on Wheels in-home support services. 19 We actually never have had to 20 exercise that evacuation plan. Everything 21 has continued in a very safe manner. The 22 only time we ever had to do any evacuations 23 was in Laguna Beach when they had the fires 24 in 1993, but nobody died. We were able to 25 get them out. 26 The biggest concern when you have 27 any kind of emergency is what are these 28 people going to do that are on oxygen? What PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 181 1 are these people going to do that are 2 dependent on all these medical devices? We 3 have the largest number of the oldest old in 4 Southern California region. People started 5 retiring here post-World War II, about 1952. 6 And we have the oldest of old. We have over 7 3,000 seniors right now that are over 80 8 years old in this county. 9 So I'm concerned about safe energy. 10 And I have a personal concern, because I 11 actually have severe respiratory problems. 12 And I belong to a large group out of the two 13 hospitals in our area that actually help 14 people with clean air. We have to have the 15 air cleaned in our office, in our homes, with 16 electrical devices, otherwise you can't 17 breathe. 18 So I'm concerned. I mean the 19 carbon, when I first moved to, you know, 20 Orange County, it was terrible air quality. 21 And I had been all over the world. I've been 22 to these small countries. I've been to Japan 23 and China. All of them have terrible air 24 quality, and they don't have the Nuclear 25 Regulatory Commission or the Public Utilities 26 Commission as oversight. So I thank you for 27 the job that you do, and I praise you. 28 I hope we can get Unit 2 back PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 182 1 online. Thank you. 2 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 3 Dr. Ditty, I want to personally 4 thank you for the work you do with seniors. 5 My father is an 87-your-old resident of 6 Orange County. He is in your scope. I 7 appreciate the work you do. 8 One more speaker, and then we will 9 take a break for our reporter. That would be 10 Mr. Louie Aguinaga, Mayor of South El Monte 11 who signed in? There you are. Please tell 12 me if I blew your name. 13 MR. AGUINANA: No, you said it right. 14 ALJ DARLING: Good. 15 STATEMENT OF MR. AGUINAGA 16 MR. AGUINANA: Good evening 17 commissioners, Commissioner Florio and 18 Commissioner Darling, right? 19 ALJ DARLING: I'm Judge Darling. 20 MR. AGUINANA: Oh, Judge Darling. 21 I understand the interest in safety 22 that relates to nuclear power, to the power 23 plants. My only comment about the clean air 24 is, you know, I'm in favor of wind, solar 25 and, at best, intermittent sources of 26 electricity. But they are intermittent. 27 When the wind doesn't blow, no 28 electricity. When there is no sun, there is PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 183 1 no electricity. So we need stable 24/7 2 electricity. And we know nuclear power is 3 safe. It has been proven in the past. So 4 the only comment -- that was my only comment. 5 If San Onofre has always been -- has 6 always been -- has been operating clean, has 7 been working safely, you know, and just based 8 on -- excuse me. 9 Let's be honest, it would be 10 replaced with natural gas, little 11 old-fashioned carbon-based fossil fuels. 12 That would mean more green gas emissions, and 13 that would raise questions about global 14 warming as well as the health. Increasing of 15 use of fossil fuels just seems to me like 16 instead of going forward we are going 17 backwards. 18 You guys are doing a fantastic job. 19 Let's just get this thing back online and 20 have some clean energy. 21 Thank you. 22 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 23 We will go off the record until 24 7:40. Thank you. 25 (Recess taken) 26 ALJ DARLING: I'd like to announce the 27 next five speakers and ask them to come 28 forward, Caroline Cavecche, Marty Peterson, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 184 1 Christina Imhoof, Jennifer Massey, and Thomas 2 English. 3 STATEMENT OF MS. CAVECCHE 4 MS. CAVECCHE: You are one of the few 5 people who have ever pronounced my name 6 correctly. 7 ALJ DARLING: I try. 8 MS. CAVECCHE: Judge and Commissioner, 9 it is a pleasure to be here. Thank you very 10 much, for putting in the amount of effort and 11 time you have today. 12 My name is Carolyn Cavecche. I'm 13 the former mayor of the City of Orange. I 14 served 12 years on the city council, the last 15 six as the directly elected mayor. The city 16 of Orange is north of here, a little bit 17 north of Santa Ana. 18 And before I go into my prepared 19 statement I just wanted to let you know over 20 the 12 years that I served, Edison has done a 21 phenomenal job of coming in and keeping us 22 briefed on what is happening down at SONGS 23 and just issues within the grid and issues 24 with the company completely. 25 So we've heard about the drills. We 26 know what is going on. In fact, their rep 27 attends most of our city council meetings. 28 When she is not there, we get a little PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 185 1 worried about her. She especially -- with 2 what happened this last summer, she was there 3 making announcements about what needed to be 4 done for conservation in our community. I 5 wanted to let you know that. 6 I left office in December. I'm 7 currently the CEO -- I'm loving it, by the 8 way -- I'm currently the President and CEO of 9 the Orange County Taxpayers Association. It 10 is the only countywide taxpayer group that 11 advocates on behalf of businesses and 12 taxpayers on tax issues, governmental 13 services issues. 14 We are actually very concerned. As 15 a former public official -- I now represent a 16 lot of businesses in the county. The state 17 of California, like the entire country, is 18 really digging itself out finally after a 19 very hard fiscal crisis. The worst really 20 since The Depression. 21 I'm read Orange County seems to be 22 leading the way on this. Our unemployment 23 level is down, I think rank number two for 24 jobs and businesses in the state of 25 California. We are really trying to do best. 26 I'm practically a native to Orange 27 County. Moved here when I was five years 28 old. I grew up, it has been -- I forget how PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 186 1 long it was, but it has been how long time 2 since I was five years old. I remember not 3 being able to go play on the playground 4 because of the smog alerts back in Southern 5 California at that time, especially in Orange 6 County. We've really done a wonderful job in 7 this state over the years in being able to 8 finally provide clean energy, to try to put 9 some different rules in place. 10 But my fear is that the state has 11 become very restrictive. It has become very 12 restrictive. It is a very poor regulatory 13 climate in our country, especially the state 14 of California. And the problem is going to 15 be that, as much as you would all like to 16 have multiple sources of clean alternative 17 energy, it truly is not going to happen for a 18 while here in California. 19 One of the other speakers talked a 20 little about it, following some of the issues 21 as far as putting in transmission lines, 22 there are communities all over our county 23 that do not want that to take place here. It 24 is going to be a problem for us. 25 Our businesses truly cannot survive. 26 We did great last summer, but I'm very 27 concerned about going forward if this plant 28 remains off-line completely. I do not think PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 187 1 we are going to have the capability of 2 producing energy to keep the economy moving 3 in California. I'm specifically worried 4 about what is going to happen in Orange 5 County. We are not going to get smaller. We 6 are going to continue to grow. I believe 7 Orange County is leading the way. 8 My specific request is do your due 9 diligence. Thank you for your efforts. 10 Let's try to keep the state growing, but 11 especially for me, keep the businesses in 12 Orange County booming. We need energy to do 13 that. 14 ALJ DARLING: Marty Peterson. 15 STATEMENT OF MR. PETERSON 16 MR. PETERSON: Thank you for giving me 17 this opportunity to speak today. 18 My name is Marty Peterson. I'm the 19 Vice President of Operations with the Santa 20 Ana Chamber of Commerce. We represent 475 21 member businesses in and around Santa Ana. 22 Santa Ana is home to many 23 manufacturers, many hundreds of them. And a 24 consistent source of affordable power is very 25 important to them, and consistent power, you 26 know, it has a bad effect many times on their 27 machinery and systems when there is peaks and 28 outages and things like that, as well as down PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 188 1 times when things do go down. 2 Between I and the chamber president 3 we've attended three of the public NRC 4 meetings and listened to both sides very 5 carefully. And we feel that Southern 6 California Edison and the NRC are doing a 7 really good job of getting to the route 8 causes of what is going on. And with the -- 9 it seems prudent that they shut down the one 10 reactor, and it seems like they have a good 11 basis to start the other reactor. 12 Also, we are concerned with the -- 13 not only the consistent source of power, but 14 there is a couple of thousand jobs in the 15 area that are at stake at that plant too. 16 Not only the jobs there but the goods and 17 services that are fed by local companies also 18 are very important. 19 So I just wanted to say that we 20 would be in favor of them being able to start 21 up that reactor at the lower levels that they 22 are talking about. 23 Thank you very much. 24 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Christina 25 Imhoof. 26 STATEMENT OF MS. IMHOOF 27 MS. IMHOOF: Hello. I'm Christina 28 Imhoof from San Diego. I'm a ratepayer. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 189 1 Your Honor, Commissioner -- 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Speak into the 3 microphone, please. 4 MS. IMHOOF: Sorry, can you hear me 5 now? Sorry. 6 So I'm a ratepayer from San Diego. 7 I've heard you say several times, 8 Commissioner, that -- you are trying to warn 9 us of not having enough electricity in the 10 summer and the heat. I'll take that heat any 11 time as opposed to living -- what the lady 12 from Japan testified to, I don't want my 13 17-year-old daughter or myself to die of 14 radiation prematurely. It is as simple as 15 that. I don't think there is much debate on 16 that issue. 17 I notice, as I understand it, you 18 are responsible for making sure our money is 19 spent wisely. So I'm wondering why we are 20 paying? We've been paying for a year for 21 this being off-line, this SONGS being 22 off-line because of the problems. 23 I just have not -- I've not heard 24 anything that addresses that question. I'm 25 angry, and I'm really proposing that the 26 ratepayers take out that percentage of their 27 bill that go to Edison's operations, or 28 whatever they are doing with our money. Do PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 190 1 you know what they are doing with our money? 2 Do you keep tabs on, you know, what our funds 3 are actually being used for? 4 ALJ DARLING: Yes, and we are in the 5 process -- 6 MS. IMHOOF: We would like to know if 7 you can publicize that. I think it should be 8 a transparent process. 9 ALJ DARLING: I would direct your 10 attention to Edison's website. They are 11 required by our order to post all of their 12 filings related to this on their website, not 13 just for parties of the proceeding, but to 14 absolutely everyone in the public. 15 One of the things that they are 16 required to do is to put in monthly reports 17 about where the expenditures are. And they 18 have filed their first report dated February 19 1st. I urge you to take a look at that. 20 That will tell you where the expenditures are 21 both for operating capital, outage related. 22 That is the focus of our evidentiary 23 hearings coming up where we are going to be 24 examining those costs to see if they were 25 reasonable or not, given the outage. 26 MS. IMHOOF: So after the fact there is 27 an oversight on your part but not beforehand, 28 not really supervising. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 191 1 ALJ DARLING: What happens is we have 2 to have a record. That is what this -- we 3 have a judicial process in which a record is 4 established. The first step says what they 5 spend. The second step is 26 parties 6 intervene and come in and say that is not 7 right, that is not right, that is not right. 8 Then the Commission makes a 9 decision. We are moving pretty quickly on 10 that. There is a couple of legal issues that 11 are being fleshed out as to timing, because 12 the statute has some ambiguity in it about 13 the refund timing. But this is -- so this is 14 absolutely front and center in front of the 15 Commission and in front of this proceeding 16 right now. 17 The difficulty is some have an 18 interest in just the Commission just acting 19 arbitrarily and saying let's take X amount of 20 dollars out of rate base. That is something 21 that is -- what would happen is Edison would 22 go to court, charge us for all the fees, and 23 we would lose. Because we have to have a 24 record. We can't just pick a number out of 25 thin air. 26 MS. IMHOOF: That doesn't answer the 27 question of why we've been paying for nothing 28 for a year, right? PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 192 1 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: Our order made 2 all of that subject to refunds. So if the 3 determination ends up being that that money 4 should not have been charged, people will get 5 it back. 6 MS. IMHOOF: Good news. Thank you. We 7 will stay on top of this as ratepayers. We 8 look forward to hearing from you on your 9 oversight responsibilities. 10 Today's hearing, I understand, is to 11 find out whether you should remove the value 12 of any portion of SONGS facility from the 13 rate base. And I agree with the taxpayer 14 representative, it is a no brainer, of course 15 you should. 16 Secondly, whether CPUC should 17 disallow rate recovery of any expenses 18 related to the operation of SONGS. I think 19 that means rate recovery by us or by Edison? 20 I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: By Edison from 22 customers. 23 MS. IMHOOF: No way, no way, no way. 24 Also a no brainer. 25 So why, you know, I mean these are 26 things that -- this is your job. So I would 27 hope that you would determine this based on 28 logic. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 193 1 The third thing, whether you should 2 make any findings directing SCE to take 3 specific actions. Yes, refund the hundreds 4 of millions of dollars already paid through 5 electricity bills for the defective steam 6 generators. Refund the hundreds of millions 7 of dollars already paid through electricity 8 bills for all the inspections, regulatory 9 costs, replacement power that Edison's 10 defective steam generator design has cost us. 11 I'd like to see more transparency 12 and more concern. You see, in an ordinary 13 business sense a businessowner makes a 14 massive mistake, and he starts charging his 15 customers to make up for the money he lost. 16 We are the customers. We can walk from a 17 business like that. Can we walk from Edison? 18 No, they are a monopoly. So who is between 19 them and us? You. So do your jobs. 20 Thanks. 21 ALJ DARLING: Jennifer Massey. 22 STATEMENT OF MS. MASSEY 23 MS. MASSEY: Thank you very, very much 24 for your time, your thoughtfulness and 25 consideration. We very much appreciate it. 26 We hope that you will not only 27 consider ratepayer costs but the safety 28 issue. We are constantly reassured by Edison PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 194 1 that safety is their number one concern. We 2 contend San Onofre safely, but it cannot 3 protect us from earthquakes, tsunamis, fire, 4 terrorist attacks, human error, et cetera. 5 Additionally, evacuations in the event of a 6 disaster is impossible, just impossible. 7 They say that they've given the 8 school districts and everything else 9 instructions, and whatever else they called 10 it, and so far and so on, about what to do. 11 There is nothing they could do. It is 12 absolutely hopeless. 13 So the safety issue really seems to 14 be more about Edison's profit to me. That is 15 the safety they are most worried about. That 16 is what it seems to me. 17 What are the chamber of commerce and 18 some city councilmembers who spoke earlier 19 thinking when they asked you to let Edison 20 restart the defective plant with a worst, 21 worst record of all 104 nuclear plants in 22 America? They spoke about how their cities, 23 businesses need reliable energy. Don't they 24 take into consideration what would happen to 25 those businesses if there should be a 26 meltdown of San Onofre? 27 (Applause) 28 MS. MASSEY: They not only would be PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 195 1 allowed to return to their businesses, they 2 would have no insurance. So they would 3 have -- so they would lose all the equities 4 in those businesses and those homes. So they 5 are really looking at very short term. I'm 6 staggered, shocked, appalled at the -- I 7 don't know what call it. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Ignorance. 9 MS. MASSEY: Narrow minded. I don't 10 think they are ignorant. I think they are 11 protecting -- they are not protecting us. 12 ALJ DARLING: Could I ask the audience 13 to refrain so that this lovely lady can 14 continue her comments, and we can hear them 15 and get them on the transcript. Thank you. 16 MS. MASSEY: Finally, the lady who was 17 just before, she was exceptionally 18 articulate. She basically took away my final 19 short little paragraph here. I'll just 20 repeat, because I don't know what else to 21 say. 22 Why has Edison been allowed to bill 23 us for over a year for power we haven't 24 received? What kind of governance is this? 25 It is not demographic. It doesn't seem fair 26 or reasonable. I would like to ask you to 27 direct Edison to refund all the charges to 28 ratepayers for the past year, and for the PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 196 1 close to $1 billion dollars for the faulty 2 generators. 3 And I do appreciate your comments in 4 response to her. I'll take that into 5 consideration. I appreciate very much what 6 is going to, I believe -- I believe in my 7 heart, my instincts -- my husband doesn't 8 believe in that, but a lot of people do -- my 9 instincts tell me you are going to do the 10 right thing. I appreciate that in advance. 11 Thank you very much. 12 ALJ DARLING: Next speaker, Mr. Thomas 13 English. 14 And then the five speakers following 15 please come forward, Jeremy Harris, Myla 16 Reson, Frank Forbaath, Valentin Poiset, and 17 Melissa Levine. Thank you. 18 Mr. English. 19 STATEMENT OF MR. ENGLISH 20 MR. MASSEY: Yes, hi. My name is Tom 21 English. I'm from Hollywood. I'm here 22 because everyone in Los Angeles is down wind 23 of San Onofre too, no matter how much they 24 want to be in denial. 25 Mr. Kramer mentioned that, you know, 26 he was talking about all the precautions, 27 nothing goes without risk, nothing comes 28 without risk. Solar power comes without risk PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 197 1 and wind comes without risk. And the whole 2 thing that there is no need for all of this 3 except a few people make profit is just the 4 most outrageous, insane thing imaginable. 5 So I have something to say. It is 6 very brief. It is two and a half minutes 7 long. And it has to do -- I would like to 8 just basically ask this question: In honor 9 of my wonderful business friends who are so 10 concerned about their businesses, what would 11 they do if the thing blows the next day? 12 (Singing): 13 What part of Fukushima do you not 14 understand? When nuclear contamination hits 15 the fan. Plutonium is everywhere, it is in 16 the sea, it is in the air, and we don't even 17 have any evacuation plan. 18 What part of Fukushima do you not 19 understand? What part of Fukushima did you 20 somehow miss? When surely shooting every 21 time with things like this. Destruction 22 rages like a flame, officials play and spin 23 the blame, and all of us are bracing, racing 24 facing the abyss. 25 What part of Fukushima did you 26 somehow miss? Human kind is human kind and 27 we all make mistakes. Hard sometimes to not 28 be blind and fall for fakes. But even now, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 198 1 before our eyes, it is in the sea, it is the 2 skies. You know we can prioritize, air, 3 water, come on guys. 4 What part of Fukushima do you need 5 clarified? What happens when the plate 6 tectonics slip and slide? And when it blows, 7 what happens then? It isn't if, you know 8 it's when. And we are going to be petrified, 9 we are going to run, we are going to hide. 10 What part of Fukushima do you not 11 understand? How then can even FEMA ever lend 12 a hand. The time to make the break is now, 13 to wind and wave and solar power. If we are 14 going to live, nuclear power must be banned. 15 Wrap your mind around Fukushima. It 16 is no time to be a dreama. It is no time to 17 be a schemer. 18 Google Fukushima, take a stand. 19 ALJ DARLING: Thank you, Mr. English, 20 for the most creative presentation today. 21 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: When you said you 22 were from Hollywood I should have seen that 23 coming. 24 (Laughter) 25 MR. MASSEY: You saw it coming. 26 ALJ DARLING: Mr. Harris. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. HARRIS 28 MR. HARRIS: It is my pleasure to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 199 1 follow that act. 2 ALJ DARLING: Do you dance? 3 (Laughter) 4 MR. HARRIS: Good evening, Commissioner 5 Florio and Judge Darling. Thank you again 6 for your service and being here tonight to 7 allow us to be in front of you. 8 My name is Jeremy Harris. I'm the 9 President and CEO of Garden Grove Chamber of 10 Commerce. We are a 325 member strong, 11 Central Orange County here. Here tonight to 12 speak to you regarding San Onofre, of course, 13 and Edison's plan to restart SONGS, and the 14 impact it has on our community and our 15 businesses. 16 As you are all aware, nuclear energy 17 continues to be offered at nearly unlimited 18 production, low-cost electricity to a lot of 19 the businesses throughout our good community. 20 We believe that Southern California Edison 21 provides reliable energy service and has 22 always been on the forefront of new 23 technologies, has also been there for 24 businesses in order to help businesses save 25 on costs. For example, the chambers are on 26 record supporting Edison's smart metering 27 program, its utility's energy efficient 28 programs, enhanced electrician -- electric PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 200 1 transportation systems and established smart 2 grids. 3 This is just another example how we 4 believe in Garden Grove Edison is staying 5 ahead of the curve in allowing the utility to 6 remain competitive while offering its 7 customers with more accurate and timely usage 8 information, again once for their members and 9 their customers. 10 Furthermore, I believe SONGS is a 11 critical part of the overall electricity 12 network and -- that many of us depend on, 13 including us in Garden Grove. Now Edison is 14 currently in the steps of instituting safe, 15 reliable affordable electricity by outlining 16 their plan to restart SONGS. 17 We in Garden Grove understand the 18 necessary precautions used to take when 19 dealing with nuclear energy as well. We also 20 understand the regional impact that SONGS can 21 have on the greater regional economy due to 22 many businesses watching and counting every 23 dollar and penny they earn, especially when 24 it comes to their bills. 25 Our chamber is the leader when comes 26 to business in our community. We also know 27 that in order to lead we need to ensure that 28 not only the business community is protected, PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 201 1 but residences and communities that are 2 surrounding Garden Grove help enhance us to 3 do business. We urge the Commission to 4 consider Edison's plan for SONGS with the 5 mindset of success for all, and with the 6 understanding that this is a serious issue 7 with critical impacts for many stakeholders, 8 including business. 9 We take considerable pride in making 10 sure businesses are protected from 11 unreasonable rate increases. We know there 12 is also a cost of doing business as well. 13 Edison can be commended for paving 14 the way for more efficient, sustainable 15 consumer-friendly market throughout our 16 region. And it is a testament to what 17 they've done in Garden Grove. We hope this 18 will continue, and you will take this into 19 consideration with your decision. 20 Thanks for your time tonight. 21 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 22 Next speaker is Myla Reson. 23 STATEMENT OF MS. RESON 24 MS. RESON: Good evening. 25 You know, I've got to say I've been 26 sitting here since this afternoon. And I get 27 this feeling that I'm in this sort of 28 modern-day surreal enactment of that old PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 202 1 children's story The King's New Clothes. 2 Where everybody knew that the king was butt 3 naked, and yet it took a child to say, "What 4 clothes?" Here we could call the story 5 nuclear power is safe instead of The King's 6 New Clothes. Because we all know that the 7 term "safe nuclear energy" is a total 8 oxymoron. 9 It is safe we hear from chamber of 10 commerce representative after chamber of 11 commerce representative. It is safe we hear 12 from Pete Dietrich. It is safe we hear from 13 various officials. It is safe until it is 14 not safe. It is safe until it is not. 15 We are almost two years past 16 Fukushima. The NRC was supposed to or is in 17 the process of looking at lessons learned 18 from Fukushima. They gave their first report 19 back recently within the last couple of 20 weeks, and they say they have not yet gotten 21 to addressing beyond design events. "Beyond 22 design events" are events like earthquakes 23 greater than the plants are designed to 24 withstand. 25 There -- San Onofre sits on, what, 26 three earthquake faults, in a tsunami zone. 27 One of the most irresponsible things done in 28 this state and in this country was to allow PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 203 1 Diablo Canyon and San Onofre to start 2 generating high-level, radioactive waste on 3 fault lines in Southern California and Diablo 4 Canyon. 5 We've got decades and decades of 6 high-level waste crammed into overcrowded 7 cooling ponds that require constant cooling 8 to prevent meltdown. What happens if we get 9 that great shaking quake? What happens when 10 we get that tsunami? We cannot allow Edison 11 to generate anymore waste. 12 Pete Dietrich talked about everybody 13 is prepared for these emergencies, as other 14 people have said. But we are not prepared 15 for an 8.0 at San Onofre and a core meltdown. 16 We are not prepared for that. There is no 17 evacuation plan. It is utterly 18 irresponsible, criminally irresponsible, to 19 go forward. Thank you. 20 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 21 Next speaker, Frank Forbaath. 22 STATEMENT OF MR. FORBAATH 23 MR. FORBAATH: Appreciate you all being 24 here. 25 I'm Frank Forbaath. I've lived my 26 full life, with the couple of exceptions, in 27 California rather, LA and Orange County. 28 With time in the Navy, World War II, naval PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 204 1 officer, and a few other things, et cetera. 2 But anyway, I'm trying to say I'm a little 3 bit older than some here, and I may stutter 4 along the way. 5 But I have several thoughts here, 6 but everybody has covered most of those so 7 well. Let me start, let me essentially say 8 that I was surprised how -- that you had a 9 fairly good audience out here with lots of 10 people from various areas. But I found out 11 about this through TURN, the utility reform 12 group. The LA Times, they sent it to me in a 13 card. The LA Times talked about the utility, 14 public utility -- I'm sorry, the federal, the 15 federal... 16 ALJ DARLING: The NRC? 17 MS. FORBAATH: NRC was speaking, but 18 that is the only message I got except through 19 TURN, which surprised me. It may have been 20 the Pilot. We read almost all of that, but 21 the LA Times didn't see to cover it. They 22 cover -- but anyway. The LA -- I'm sorry. 23 ALJ DARLING: Let me ask you, 24 Mr. Forbaath: You are an Edison customer? 25 MR. FORBAATH: I am. 26 ALJ DARLING: You did get a notice in 27 your bill. Did you see that? 28 MR. FORBAATH: I did not. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 205 1 ALJ DARLING: I take your point that a 2 lot of people don't see the bill insert. I 3 did want to make sure, or at least determine 4 whether you are an Edison customer. Thank 5 you. 6 MR. FORBAATH: Let me ask you: What 7 was the statement in there? I don't care 8 about the exact wording. Was it a big notice 9 come to the meeting or was it a little notice 10 somewhere? How was it presented? 11 ALJ DARLING: Is it half page, 12 Mr. Worden? 13 MR. WORDEN: It is a folded page. It 14 is a stand-alone piece of paper inside the 15 bill. 16 ALJ DARLING: Our Public Advisor's 17 Office approves the language and the format 18 and the font type. It was our direction that 19 Edison put that bill notice to every single 20 customer, not just those in the immediate 21 area. But I take your point that not 22 everyone, in fact a lot of people don't see 23 those notices. 24 MR. FORBAATH: Related to that, we have 25 sons, one of our several sons, kids, lives in 26 San Clemente within less than a mile from 27 that. He was surprised. He works there in 28 Costa Mesa. He is a lawyer. He didn't know PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 206 1 about it. So I'm glad it came about the two 2 sets of meetings. 3 So that is answered much in my 4 problem. But I would just like to point out 5 that you obviously got mayors' attention, 6 because there were a number of mayors here. 7 But I called, not knowing who was going to be 8 there, even the scope of this. But anyway, 9 the city clerk's office, they checked with 10 several secretaries of the various 11 departments. They said there was nobody on 12 record, nobody, had no record of any in the 13 city council, et cetera. Mr. Messenger was 14 here, so he obviously heard about it. But 15 none of the secretaries knew about it. That 16 was one of my concerns. 17 And secondly, I'm interested in -- 18 was interested in the scope of this, because 19 the comment I got, I'm not sure how much that 20 was said by Edison, but I had no idea. And I 21 checked with a couple of other people here, 22 City of Costa Mesa people, primarily my son. 23 I would like to point out that that needs to 24 be highlighted so the people know not only 25 when but what is the scope, what is the 26 purpose of it? I'll get a partial answer, 27 thanks to you, but the purpose ought to be 28 clearly stated. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 207 1 If I could urge you to do that in 2 the future. Because -- anyway, I'm now 3 repeating myself of my knowledge. Maybe the 4 announcement in the Edison was specific about 5 the scope. But I can see that that might be 6 missing based on -- I'm just being skeptical, 7 but I will not accuse them. Anyway, I don't 8 understand the scope, because I have 9 information I was going to discuss about some 10 of the technical aspects of this. I'm a bit 11 of a technocrat, background with a few 12 degrees, et cetera. I'm just concerned about 13 some areas which I won't touch about, because 14 the scope didn't allow me to decide whether I 15 should come. 16 But I think that is all I should 17 say. Please answer. 18 ALJ DARLING: Yes. A couple of things, 19 Mr. Forbaath. 20 One, I appreciate you letting us 21 know about the fact that this information 22 came late to you and was hard to find. We 23 have been working a lot on trying to expand 24 our notice to the public. We undertook an 25 outreach to local governments. We undertook 26 an outreach to community groups and to the 27 local press, both print and broadcast, to try 28 to get coverage of this. I have seen some PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 208 1 articles in the paper. 2 My experience -- 3 MR. FORBAATH: In local papers that 4 cover Orange County? 5 ALJ DARLING: Yes. 6 MR. FORBAATH: The Register may have 7 covered that. 8 ALJ DARLING: The Register did do 9 something. 10 But it has been my experience at 11 public participation hearings that most 12 people hear about it from an organization or 13 from the newspaper or some media form rather 14 than their notice. And I think that we are 15 trying to work on that and make sure that we 16 dovetail with the notices. The notices that 17 go into the bill, the bill inserts, is the 18 only way we know for sure that everyone has 19 an opportunity to have the notice because it 20 goes to everyone. 21 Recognizing that that has its 22 limitations, and your remarks only amplify 23 that, that we do need to do more about using 24 the press and the media and community groups 25 to get the word out. I appreciate your 26 comments about that. 27 Second, you said you had some 28 additional comments. I would like to PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 209 1 encourage you to speak with the Public 2 Advisor outside. They will take written 3 comments. They will tell you how to submit 4 those by e-mail or letter so it gets to us 5 and the commissioners, other than 6 Commissioner Florio. We would love to hear 7 what you have to say. 8 So if you want to take your time and 9 put something in writing to us, we are happy 10 to read it. 11 MR. FORBAATH: I have nothing magic to 12 say. Some people who are obviously better 13 qualified in technical areas, but I will let 14 it go at that time. 15 Just one last response to you, what 16 you just said. I did hear it was 6 o'clock. 17 I was late. I heard it on the 6 o'clock news 18 that there was this meeting here. Now, this 19 is -- this was -- we were out this morning. 20 I heard the news several times today, but I 21 never heard that. And 6 o'clock tonight 22 about a meeting tonight when you also had one 23 in the afternoon, it may have been on the 24 news this afternoon because there is a lot of 25 repetition, but I heard it on PBS radio, on 26 the air. That was pretty late to be heard. 27 So I would throw it out, maybe you 28 need to do a more complete job. Let me let PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 210 1 it go at that. 2 ALJ DARLING: We have a bit of a hard 3 time interesting media ahead of time. 4 But I absolutely agree with you that 5 more could be done to get the information 6 out. I'm very appreciative, we are both very 7 appreciative that you came today to provide 8 the comments that you have. I encourage you 9 to consider getting into our subscription 10 service. You get further announcements about 11 proceedings. 12 MR. FORBAATH: What is that? 13 ALJ DARLING: You can talk to the 14 Public Advisor. They are up here at the 15 table. They will let you know how you can 16 sign up to get notices about what is going on 17 in this proceeding. 18 MR. FORBAATH: It would be nice if they 19 had a form here. 20 ALJ DARLING: They do. 21 MR. FORBAATH: In the way -- form for 22 that? 23 ALJ DARLING: Yes. 24 MR. FORBAATH: It would have been nice 25 if you had been explicit on what exactly what 26 you had, what the scope of this meeting was 27 going to be. I realize you gave me a partial 28 answer to that. I don't want to push that PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 211 1 further. I think that is very important, 2 because we all various skills and various 3 time limits. 4 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much for 5 coming on short notice. We appreciate your 6 time. 7 MR. FORBAATH: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER FLORIO: I would just say 9 to everyone here, I mean we struggle as a 10 state agency to figure out the best way to 11 get information out to the public. And 12 anybody that has good ideas about how we can 13 do better, the lovely lady in red over here, 14 Karen Miller, you can call her, e-mail her, 15 talk to her this evening. If you think of 16 something tomorrow, you know, send us an 17 e-mail and note, because it is something that 18 we continue to try to work on to do better. 19 And it is just tough in a state with over 30 20 million people to try to make sure everybody 21 knows what is going on. Our process is 22 inevitably better as we get input from the 23 public. 24 Thank you all very much. 25 ALJ DARLING: The next speaker, 26 Valentin Poiset. Tell me that was close. 27 STATEMENT OF MR. POISET 28 MR. POISET: That was close. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 212 1 I want to begin by thanking the 2 California Public Utilities Commission for 3 holding this hearing and for seeking public 4 input on the San Onofre investigation. 5 My question relates to the hearing 6 held last month sponsored by the Nuclear 7 Regulatory Commission, which was attended by 8 SDG&E, Edison, and presumably by a 9 representative of the CPUC. 10 At the hearing I specifically asked 11 the panel from the NRC if the information 12 they obtained regarding the San Onofre 13 Nuclear Generating Station, commonly referred 14 to as SONGS, was disseminated equally among 15 the stakeholders as defined in public 16 citizen's guide. Stakeholders are defined as 17 the public, the media, the Congress, NRC 18 licensees, such as SDG&E as well as Edison, 19 other federal agencies and departments, also 20 federal, state, tribal, and local 21 organizations, as well as the international 22 community. 23 In the light of this comprehensive 24 list, I believe it is safe to presume that 25 the CPUC is considered an important 26 stakeholder the NRC would recognize as 27 instrumental in maintaining effective 28 relations and communications. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 213 1 Senator Boxer has stated in an open 2 published letter that the operators of SONGS 3 knew that the steam generators were flawed 4 before they installed -- before they were 5 installed in the plant. Specifically, 6 Senator Boxer refers to the document -- 7 refers in the document to the manufacturers 8 of the generators, Mitsubishi Heavy 9 Industries. According to Senator Boxer, the 10 document shows that Southern California 11 Edison, the operative and majority owner of 12 the plant. And Mitsubishi wrote, quote, 13 serious problems with the design of the steam 14 generators before they were installed almost 15 four years ago in 2009 and 2010. 16 My question is two-fold. First of 17 all, in light of this report and the 18 disclosure by our esteemed senators was, and 19 if so, when was California Public Utilities 20 Commission informed there were, quote, 21 serious problems? If the CPUC was informed, 22 why did they not disclose this information to 23 the public as required in California Public 24 Utilities Commission Code? 25 As well, if they were, excuse the 26 pun, kept the dark, why would CPUC even 27 consider the ratepayers responsible for 28 something that SDG&E knew were flawed before PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 214 1 they installed the steam generators and kept 2 hidden from the public for four years? 3 Thank you. 4 ALJ DARLING: Two things in response to 5 your comments. One, I want to assure you 6 that the California Public Utilities 7 Commission is very closely monitoring all of 8 the action at the Nuclear Regulatory 9 Commission regarding SONGS, both the Energy 10 Division, the director is here today, as well 11 as our Safety and Enforcement Division is on 12 the lookout for anything that would fall 13 within their purview. So there is very close 14 monitoring and cooperation in terms of 15 getting information. 16 Now, with respect to that particular 17 report by Mitsubishi, the vendor of the 18 generators, that is something that this 19 Commission has been asking for. I think 20 parties in the proceeding have been asking 21 for it. 22 So the last, as I understand, 23 perhaps Mr. Randolph can correct me if you've 24 got more updated information, my 25 understanding is that there has been a 26 representation to the Energy Division that 27 the report would be released soon in it is 28 partially redacted form because there is some PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 215 1 proprietary information, they claim. We 2 don't know what is there. We don't know what 3 would be redacted. We want it so we can look 4 at it, and then we might wind up complaining 5 about what has been redacted. We don't know 6 what is in it. We haven't seen it yet. 7 We've contacted everyone from 8 Senator Boxer's office forward to try to get 9 that report. We understand the process is 10 under way to get it released. 11 Mr. Randolph, do you have anything 12 more recent about that? 13 MR. RANDOLPH: No. We still haven't 14 received the letter. We are trying to get 15 the letter. 16 ALJ DARLING: So when we get it, we 17 will make sure that we can make it as public 18 as possible and certainly will refer it to 19 both our Energy Division and our Safety and 20 Enforcement Division. 21 MR. POISET: So as of now you guys have 22 no idea what is in the letter, redacted or 23 not? 24 ALJ DARLING: We have not seen the 25 Mitsubishi report. We have only seen a press 26 report of the statement and letter from 27 Senator Boxer to the NRC. 28 As I said, we immediately contacted PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 216 1 Senator Boxer's office, and they were not 2 able to provide the report to us. So we went 3 straight to the NRC. We have a variety of 4 avenues being pursued to get that report. We 5 have representation from NRC that they will 6 be releasing it to us and to the public. 7 MR. POISET: Thank you. 8 ALJ DARLING: All right. Melissa 9 Levine. 10 STATEMENT OF MS. LEVINE 11 MS. LEVINE: I'm a native Californian 12 also. And -- but I'm a bit of a beginner's 13 mind with this, because my specialty, or what 14 I have a website on is 15 stopsmartmetersirvine.com. 16 Right now I'm paying an opt-out fee 17 for carcinogenic smart meter from being on my 18 house. And I think that what the DRA -- I'm 19 also finding out that I'm paying in my bill 20 for San Onofre, which is off-line. And I 21 think that -- I agree with the DRA that they 22 should definitely do refunds. I'm glad you 23 are investigating that. 24 I think I was about 10 years old 25 when they built San Onofre. I just remember 26 sitting in my fourth grade classroom and 27 looking at a picture that they had in the 28 book telling us about the miracle of nuclear PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 217 1 power, that this is going to be so wonderful. 2 I remember that. This is the time of the 3 Vietnam War. 4 But -- and as I said, this is not my 5 expertise, but that my gut is we've got a 6 nuclear power plant that cannot withstand an 7 earthquake more than 7. And we have what 8 happened in Japan, and I'm very concerned. 9 And then the letter from Barbara Boxer saying 10 that Edison knew that these steam generators 11 were defective. 12 So I do not support San Onofre being 13 restarted. I support that it be shut down 14 permanently. So that -- 15 (Applause) 16 MS. LEVINE: All the representatives 17 from the -- I was really surprised by all the 18 suits from the city councils who are -- I 19 also am in support of business. I'm in 20 support of the businesses being able to 21 survive here. 22 And also I have a lovely home in 23 Irvine, and I want to stay in Irvine. I 24 don't want my children or everybody to have 25 to leave. This is such a beautiful place. 26 And so anyway and also -- yeah, that 27 is it. Thank you. 28 ALJ DARLING: The next speak is Matthew PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 218 1 Poiset, John Black, Bob Simpson, Jerry 2 Collamer. Come forward, please. 3 STATEMENT OF MR. POISET 4 MR. POISET: How are you? 5 ALJ DARLING: Fine. 6 MR. POISET: I've prepared some remarks 7 here. I wanted to start by saying my family 8 has been ratepayers here in San Diego since 9 1947 where my dad first moved out to -- after 10 World War II. I've been born and raised in 11 San Diego. 12 I would like to say that, maybe to 13 the chagrin to some of the people here in the 14 audience, that as a child I drove past San 15 Onofre thousands of times. And I look upon 16 it still to this day just driving up here 17 from San Diego that -- in amazement. I think 18 it is a remarkable sign of our ingenuity and 19 our technological prowess. It makes me 20 personally proud to be an American to see 21 such an amazing facility. 22 It was sort of poetic. I was 23 driving up and -- just as the sun was setting 24 over the plant. And I was amazed to hear for 25 the first time just a couple of months ago 26 that approximately a year ago radioactive 27 steam was released from San Onofre. 28 And as I'm sure you are well aware PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 219 1 of, approximately one week ago the Chairman 2 of the United States Senate Committee on 3 Environmental Public Works and California's 4 own U.S. esteemed representative issued an 5 open letter to the chairman of the Regulatory 6 Commission directing the NRC to initiate an 7 investigation concerning a report issued by 8 Mitsubishi Heavy Industry called Route Cause 9 Analysis Report for a tube identified in Unit 10 2 and Unit 3 steam generators in San Onofre 11 Generating Station. 12 According to Senator Boxer, the 13 report was issued by Mitsubishi in 2012. The 14 report states that California Edison 15 licensee, which you are charged to oversee, 16 knew there were serious problems with design 17 of SONGS before they were installed. 18 However, according to Senator Boxer based on 19 the report SCE and Mitsubishi rejected 20 enhanced safety modifications. According to 21 this report, SCE and Mitsubishi did so for 22 your nuclear regulatory agencies regulatory 23 authority. 24 According to this report you did 25 this to avoid more rigorous license and 26 safety review process. By all the 27 appearances, if a licensee rejected enhanced 28 safety modifications because of unacceptable PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 220 1 consequences, they buried this information 2 deliberately to circumvent authority. At a 3 minimum, this undermines the public 4 confidence, and at the worst possible, to 5 have certain criminal implications. This 6 report has not yet been released to the 7 public, but the NRC promised now to disclose 8 the report, albeit in redacted form, sometime 9 in the future. 10 The trouble, in some aspect of the 11 NRC, as you are well aware, held a five-hour 12 public meeting 10 miles from here less than 13 three weeks ago in January under the auspices 14 of informing the public. 15 My question to the Commissioner is 16 this: When do the licensees, Edison, 17 Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas & 18 Electric, inform the Public Utilities 19 Commission that the licensees were aware of 20 serious design problems? If and when the 21 California Public Utilities Commission 22 receive copy of the report? 23 I believe you answered that earlier 24 saying you've never received the report; is 25 that correct. 26 ALJ DARLING: That is right. As I 27 understand, that is something that the NRC 28 got from Mitsubishi. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 221 1 MR. POISET: How long ago, do you know? 2 ALJ DARLING: I do not know. 3 MR. POISET: Some time ago? 4 ALJ DARLING: I've only seen the press 5 report. 6 MR. POISET: Yeah, that is crazy. 7 ALJ DARLING: Mitsubishi didn't give it 8 to us. 9 MR. POISET: Right. Additionally, how 10 can the California Public Utilities 11 Commission adhere to their responsibilities 12 of informing the public when they are either 13 not informed or information is deliberately 14 withheld pertaining to public safety? 15 It should not be a questioned that 16 the California Public Utilities Commission 17 should remove the value of any of the SONGS 18 facility from the rate base, which I believe 19 is the issue of this hearing. The question 20 should be what recommendations to the 21 Governor as well as State Attorney General of 22 fees, fines, sanctions and possible removal 23 of licenses from Edison and subsidiaries? 24 ALJ DARLING: All right. 25 MR. POISET: So I think what we need to 26 do here, from my opinion, is disconnect the 27 power plant in the sense it being stand-alone 28 facility. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 222 1 And Edison, I don't understand why 2 somebody that would -- if this report is 3 correct, they are thwarting your authority. 4 They are thumbing their noses at you, or the 5 Nuclear Regulatory Commission is withholding 6 this information. And they need to be 7 removed as licensees of this -- I mean I 8 don't understand. I don't know why we are 9 actually contemplating paying them for hiding 10 this information from us. 11 I really appreciate -- I know you 12 guys are doing yeoman's effort here. This is 13 a lot of work. I appreciate you holding this 14 hearing, taking the time to listen what I 15 have to say. 16 Thank you very much. 17 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 18 Mr. John Black. 19 STATEMENT OF MR. BLACK 20 MR. BLACK: Hi. John Black, long-time 21 resident of Southern California right here in 22 Orange County. 23 My heart goes out to the people that 24 are involved with Fukushima. I would like to 25 suggest we have a moment of silence for the 26 dead and injured from the nuclear 27 catastrophe. Not only there, but in -- 28 people are still having ongoing problems from PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 223 1 Chernobyl also and Three Mile Island, those 2 now and in the future that will be dealing 3 with the ongoing problems from radiation 4 exposure. 5 (Moment of silence) 6 MR. BLACK: We've done fine without San 7 Onofre for over a year without any power from 8 that ticking time bomb down there in our 9 backyard. 10 And I really take offense to the 11 people that come in and read their scripts, 12 and you can see a pattern there after a 13 while. I wasn't here this afternoon, 14 probably more of a pattern. I've seen that 15 at the smart meters too. There was a 16 different administrative law judge there in 17 San Clemente in early December. You could 18 see the same kind of pattern going there. I 19 think it is very interesting. 20 I feel that Southern California 21 Edison should be held accountable for 22 delaying two years after it told the investor 23 community that the steam generator 24 replacement project was completed, to file 25 the actual costs incurred as ordered by the 26 CPUC. 27 The captive customers of the 28 monopoly of Southern California Edison and PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 224 1 SDG&E should be refunded the hundreds of 2 millions of dollars, we've already paid 3 through our electricity bills for those 4 defective steam generators, and be let off 5 the hook for the rest of the 700 million cost 6 of these flawed design steam generators now. 7 We should also be refunded the hundreds of 8 millions of dollars we have already paid 9 through our electric bill for all the 10 inspections, regulatory costs, and 11 replacement power that Edison's defective 12 design for these replacement steam generators 13 has cost us over the past year, and be let 14 off the hook in the future for that also. 15 Edison must be stopped from running 16 up the bills in the hundreds of millions of 17 dollars to get defective San Onofre Unit No. 18 2 nuclear reactor ready to restart in advance 19 of the requisite approval by the USNRC. Both 20 of these detective nuclear reactors must be 21 decommissioned now rather than continue as a 22 financial burden to Edison's and SDG&E's 23 captive customers, and to hinder California's 24 deliberate innovations toward a renewable 25 economy. We've already paid $3 billion, it 26 is my understanding, into decommissioning 27 trust fund for this nuclear power plant 28 through our electric bills. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 225 1 We need the California Public 2 Utilities Commission to act promptly to 3 protect Californians from unreasonable rates 4 for and unreliable service from these 5 defective nuclear reactors. 6 Thank you. 7 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 8 Mr. Bob Simpson. 9 STATEMENT OF MR. SIMPSON 10 MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, your Honor, 11 Commissioner. I'm Bob Simpson, President of 12 Cypress College. 13 I, like others who have spoken 14 tonight, am interested in low rates, reliable 15 and safe electricity. But I'm not an expert 16 on nuclear reactors, electrical power 17 generation, or rate determination. I find it 18 necessary to rely upon the integrity and 19 expertise of our regulators, commissioners, 20 and SCE to appropriately address the issues 21 and concerns related to operations at San 22 Onofre. 23 What I wish to address this evening 24 is SCE's positive and productive involvement 25 with our local community and with Cypress 26 College specifically. They have supported 27 the college, and they've supported our 28 students with personal involvement, with PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 226 1 professional expertise, and with financial 2 support. I believe these actions exemplify a 3 responsible and involved community partner. 4 Throughout this process of review I 5 believe SCE has likewise acted responsibly 6 and demonstrated genuine concern for public 7 safety. I believe SCE has demonstrated the 8 ability to work cooperatively with the 9 Commission and the nuclear -- with the Public 10 Utilities Commission and Nuclear Regulatory 11 Commission moving forward. 12 I appreciate your presence and the 13 opportunity to speak. Thank you. 14 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. 15 Mr. Jerry Collamer. 16 STATEMENT OF MR. COLLAMER 17 MR. COLLAMER: Good evening. Sincere 18 thank you, guys, for being here, spending an 19 entire day listening to all this. I wasn't 20 here earlier, but I know a lot of people 21 were. So I know everything has been covered 22 25 times to Tuesday. 23 I live in San Clemente. My wife and 24 I are native Californians. We were here 25 before SONGS, and we are here now with SONGS. 26 I've been to all of these conversations for 27 the past 10 years when they used to be -- 28 when these rooms used to be mostly empty. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 227 1 The word that I would like to have 2 removed from the dialogue if I were king and 3 we were talking about SONGS, exclusively 4 SONGS, is the word "reliable." I would like 5 to take that out of the conversation, because 6 it has not been reliable. It is turned off. 7 It might never be turned back on. I hope it 8 will never be turned back on. 9 So what concerns me, we are talking 10 about energy here. We are talking about 11 electrical energy and talking about public 12 energy. And what SONGS is doing for the 13 minuscule amount of electricity that it 14 produces, even when it is running, if they 15 were running the one generator 70 percent it 16 would produce 2-1/2 percent of its output for 17 the danger of the 1400 tons nuclear waste 18 sitting there on top of three earthquake 19 faults. This is crazy. The plant must be 20 shut down and not turned back on. 21 I will tell you all accolades to the 22 SONGS people for not letting that thing blow 23 up, because we know it is a creaky, leaky, 24 rusty thing. And it has got bad -- they put 25 bad mechanisms into it knowing it. So this 26 is what it has done. It is sucking the 27 public energy. 28 We can do everything else if we PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 228 1 could just -- and Edison can do this because 2 they are a brilliant company. If we can get 3 off this nuclear thing in California and put 4 all of our energy into every other kind of 5 energy. This SONGS thing is sucking us dry. 6 It is killing us. Thank you. 7 ALJ DARLING: Thank you. Is there 8 anyone here who has not previously addressed 9 this proceeding, made statements at this 10 public hearing that would like to at this 11 time? 12 STATEMENT OF MS. SULLIVAN 13 MS. SULLIVAN: I signed up to speak as 14 an individual, not as a representative. 15 ALJ DARLING: You are Ms. Sullivan, 16 right? Do you have something that doesn't 17 repeat what you said before? You have new 18 information? 19 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes. 20 ALJ DARLING: You did speak before. 21 MR. SULLIVAN: I was representing Kevin 22 Beiser, Vice President of the San Diego 23 Unified School District. I would like to 24 speak as an individual ratepayer. 25 ALJ DARLING: Sure, that is fine. I 26 want to make sure that no else that hasn't 27 had an opportunity to speak. All right. You 28 may come up. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 229 1 Martha Sullivan. 2 MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. I appreciate 3 it. 4 Again, my name is Martha Sullivan. 5 I am an SDG&E ratepayer. I'm also a small 6 businessowner in San Diego. I would like to 7 address a few things that I've heard 8 throughout the afternoon and evening by 9 supporters of Edison and restarting Unit 2. 10 It cannot be a coincidence that 11 Edison's rates are 50 percent higher than the 12 Sacramento Municipal Utility District which 13 has no nuclear power. It cannot be a 14 coincidence that the second highest rates of 15 California after Edison is SDG&E, which has a 16 higher ownership percentage than LADWP, which 17 is about 7 percent of nuclear power plant and 18 is still 50 percent lower rates than Edison. 19 So I want to make that really strong point. 20 Everybody keeps talking about how San Onofre 21 keeps rates low isn't doing their math. 22 Secondly, we do need to rethink 23 this. We need to move forward. I've got a 24 report here that talks about large 25 corporations who are installing fuel cells on 26 sites at their facilities so that they have 27 independent power on site. For example, a 28 400 kilowatt UTC Power cell at San Diego PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 230 1 Albertson is estimated to prevent 478 metric 2 tons of CO2 emissions per year, while a Whole 3 Foods in Fairfield, Connecticut provides 90 4 percent of the store's power while creating 5 therm energy for the store heating, cooling, 6 and refrigeration. This will prevent the 7 release of more than 847 metric tons of CO2 8 annually. 9 Fuel Cells 2000 says it has 10 identified 24 new companies using the 11 technology since its last report in 2010. 12 So there are other ways for us to 13 generate our electricity and meet 14 California's 33 Percent Renewable Portfolio 15 Standard, as well as keep greenhouse gases 16 down. We don't have to rely on an antiquated 17 technology that students don't even want to 18 learn about, because they can see there is no 19 future in it. 20 Finally, I would like to cite the 21 Commission itself which last summer reported 22 that California is now generating 1255 23 megawatts of electricity from over 122,000 24 rooftops, which is more than generated by one 25 of the San Onofre units when it was 26 operating. Rooftop solar installation can be 27 done in a matter of months, not the years the 28 power plant construction requires. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 231 1 I would also like to point out that 2 in 2010 the California Air Resources Board 3 estimated that 150 permanent jobs are created 4 for each 100 megawatts of local solar. In 5 San Diego County alone, we've only installed 6 2 percent of our rooftop and parking lot 7 capacity. There is a huge growth potential 8 here. 9 So all this business about we've got 10 to have San Onofre to meet our electricity 11 needs is not true at all. They need to be 12 thinking forward and not looking back. 13 ALJ DARLING: All right. I see a hand 14 back there. Both of you gentlemen have 15 spoken before. I'll give you one minute 16 each. Our rental time is just about done, or 17 our allotted time. You may have one 18 additional minute since you've addressed this 19 hearing before. If you have something 20 additional to say that is new, that is 21 different, you've got a minute. 22 STATEMENT OF MR. EDER 23 MR. EDER: I gave up a minute because I 24 thought we were going to be able to speak 25 this evening. That is what they told us at 26 the desk when we went there. 27 ALJ DARLING: Well, you are free to -- 28 I think that the Public Advisor told you at PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 232 1 the end of this session if there was time. 2 We have a little bit of extra time, so you 3 have one minute. 4 MR. EDER: I also got a minute when 5 there is 12 more? 6 Anyway, PG&E went bankrupt 10, 12 7 years ago. Southern California Edison was 8 within hours of going bankrupt. You could 9 have bought up the whole transmission and 10 distribution system for $10 billion for the 11 whole state. 12 It is time that the state of 13 California take over the transmission and 14 distribution systems that -- Edison and PG&E 15 just take contracts to maintain it, and they 16 change their function in society. That the 17 state, and PUC, the CEC, CARB, come together 18 and make solar -- to convert to solar 19 renewables in the state. 20 You can store it in batteries. In 21 Kansas they passed a law three years ago. 22 They are going to salt dunes, and they are 23 storing through their windmills. They run at 24 night and use them for peakers during the 25 day. The technology is there. The will has 26 to be there. 27 The governor is now looking at 40 or 28 50 percent by 2020 solar, because these PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 233 1 companies are coming to them and saying they 2 are going to leave the state and go to 3 somewhere else. They will go to Texas to do 4 it. We need the jobs and the work here. 5 ALJ DARLING: Can you give your name? 6 MR. EDER: My name is Harvey Eder. I'm 7 with the Public Solar Power Coalition. 8 ALJ DARLING: Thank you very much. 9 This will be our last speaker. Sir, 10 could you identify yourself for the record. 11 STATEMENT OF MR. CAMPBELL 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Good evening, I'm still 13 Bruce Campbell. 14 So anyway, obviously lots of talk 15 here about green emission, nuclear power. 16 Nuclear power has the highest carbon 17 footprint of any nonfossil fuel energy 18 source. One example is that two coal plants 19 are needed to power one uranium enrichment 20 facility at Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Then there 21 is many other emissions involved with the 22 nuclear fuel cycle. 23 Also, look at potential numbers of 24 workers who can be employed by various energy 25 sources. 26 Also, as far as agriculture areas 27 that could be severely zapped by San Onofre 28 versus the -- Escondido, Fallbrook ag area in PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 234 1 San Diego County, Imperial Valley, Coachella 2 Valley, Riverside County, those would be 3 basically finished off. Oxnard, Southern San 4 Joaquin Valley will be severely impacted, 5 Monterey Salad Bowl, and Northern San Joaquin 6 Valley, and Southern Sacramento Valley will 7 also be impacted. 8 And what has happened to 9 conservation fund money? I hear SCE had 10 maybe half a billion that sort of disappeared 11 after they ended their program. What 12 happened to that money? 13 And... 14 ALJ DARLING: Let's wrap it up, please. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: Once again, I'll remind 16 you apparently the PUC had a 2005 study that 17 concluded that if only one reactor was 18 operating at San Onofre that is not 19 financially viable. It sounds like the 20 conclusion has already been made, or it seems 21 like it. And... 22 ALJ DARLING: And thank you? 23 MR. CAMPBELL: And also there is 24 January 9th LA Times article that there could 25 be a statewide earthquake, and I'll get that 26 to your records if you haven't seen that. 27 ALJ DARLING: You are welcome to submit 28 that in writing. PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 235 1 Thank you very much for attending 2 tonight. We can't do our job unless we hear 3 from the public. This has been very helpful. 4 Please feel free to speak to the 5 Public Advisor if you want to get involved or 6 get information on this proceeding. 7 We are now adjourned. 8 (Whereupon, at the hour of 8:50 p.m., this Public Participation Hearing 9 concluded.) 10 * * * * * 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 236 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Order Instituting Investigation on ) the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Services and Facilities of Southern ) Investigation California Edison Company and San ) 12-10-013 Diego Gas and Electric Company ) Associated with the San Onofre ) Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) and 3. ) CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Ana M. Gonzalez, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11320, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on February 21, 2013. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 21st day of February, 2013. _________________________ Ana M. Gonzalez CSR No. 11320 237 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Order Instituting Investigation on ) the Commission’s Own Motion into the ) Rates, Operations, Practices, ) Services and Facilities of Southern ) Investigation California Edison Company and San ) 12-10-013 Diego Gas and Electric Company ) Associated with the San Onofre ) Nuclear Generating Station Units 2 ) and 3. ) CERTIFICATION OF TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDING I, Gayle Pichierri, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11406, in and for the State of California do hereby certify that the pages of this transcript prepared by me comprise a full, true and correct transcript of the testimony and proceedings held in the above-captioned matter on February 21, 2013. I further certify that I have no interest in the events of the matter or the outcome of the proceeding. EXECUTED this 21st day of February, 2013. _________________________ Gayle Pichierri CSR No. 11406