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Occupy San Diego Facebook Group Nuked

Background

Occupy San Diego started a group page on Facebook on September 22, 2011, just prior to the first march on Oct 7, 2011. This page has been the place to discuss issues and make announcements of events for over 16 months.

Deleted on March 14, 2013

The page was deleted by Tracey Reardon Odman on March 14, 2013, without any approval or authorization.

Just prior to the deletion of the group, Kali Katt, Cristie Paris and Donna Piranha were unmembered. Tracey was unable to provide any justification. When calls surfaced for her to step down and let others take over the role of administrator, she deleted the group.

Statement by Tracey

This quote was posted by Hex, which is an admission by Tracey that she did it with others.

"I'm getting both heat and thanks. It's running 2aginst one on average. I didn't do it by myself. We will also archive the group, so it's not a bookburning, and let the group stand as a historical record, open to anyone. We will publish a statement after we finish disabling the group. I expect to be the most hated person alive for a long time, but if kt makes people get off their ass, do some real community building, forces them to address the real issues that make up the structural problems that disempower us - it was worth it. We cannot argue another world is possible if we do not have the courage to try and create a different world. The basic founding principals of horizontalism, mutual aid, self empowerment had all been extinguished. And we have a cops wife trying to discredit witnesses who are standing up for our fellow peeps in court. That a great way to thank people who stuck their necks out while others hid behind computer screens. All the power strustures were replicating themselves (hell it was already well replicated back in the days of the grassy knoll) and left unchecked they'd soon be coronating a king - heehaw. Fuck that! No one said we weren't gonna take some hits along the way right. Now is just my turn to take one for the team. It sucks though." --Tracey.

Thomas Lee Schneider posted this statement

Here's the answer I got from Tracey: "Group isn't being nuked but rather it will be preserved so that no more information will be deleted by the authors of posts. I acted with another admin, who was accidentally deleted during the depopulation, and they will be re-adding themselves next week (they have no computer access this weekend). Also the temporary bans that were instituted the previous day were aproved by all three admins. A statement will be issued on the website within the next week. We will also attempt to restore the thread deleted by it's author with 400 plus comments. There is a dedicated comment notification account that preserves every comment and thread, even after the authors of the posts delete their words.

I am already the devil in many peoples minds, an easy moving target they get obsessed with while the wolf walks right behind them. I have no illusion that the truth will disabuse them of that notion. For a group that preaches another world is possible, they became rather entrenched in cliquish tribalism; for a group of critical thinkers - so quick to be manipulated into a lather and lynch imagined boogeymen and boogeywomen. Maybe without a forum where they feel license to slander and libel people, they'll figure out how to really talk to each other, work together and be the change they preach.

We only had 50 unique viewers/posters per month on average anyway. Oh! how the twitterazzi must be gnashing teeth and ripping bodices, thinking they lost an audience of 2500 when in reality 98% stopped paying attention a long time ago. The carnage had to stop. Let people decentralize. Fighting to the death over the illusion of a crumb has our opposition only laughing at us."

Transcript of Discussion as Page was being Nuked

Leslie Miller

‎2,886 members.... and dropping
Like · · · Thursday at 3:41pm near Los Angeles, CA
  • Josephine Piarulli So she's deleting people one at a time?
  • Leslie Miller yep. Give me a min and i'll get the new #
  • Chris West who is deleting, K or T?
  • Leslie Miller 2,857 members.... Tracey is
  • Cristie Paris who got the boot? lol
  • Cristie Paris they cant boot an idea...
  • Leslie Miller 2,823 members...
  • Cristie Paris wow they really think thats gonna fly? dafaq?
  • Leslie Miller it IS flying...right now.
  • Leslie Miller Is she even online?
  • Chris West Maybe she is not at the computer right now?
  • Josephine Piarulli Tracey finally accomplished what she set out to do and convinced people to be on board w/it.
  • Josephine Piarulli Is Alan still an admin? He's okay w/this?
  • Josephine Piarulli What's funny is how she's taking the position that it's all for the best. Just throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  • Leslie Miller Haha was just getting it
    2,797 members...
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I feel like smokin a digital cigar & watchin the digital mushroom cloud:) I think it's time:) Guys want me to say anything poignant before the ball drops?
  • Cristie Paris sorry to the folks that got banned. Im used to it Halsey banned me from that group before. Thats when this group was created. Now we will put it to use. Fuck it! Cant boot an idea!
  • BrotherHexagon The Green WE ARE NOT THIS PAGE. We'll be fine:) Might even see each other again...time to start new
  • Cristie Paris solidarity thanks so much those that speak up!
  • Toddynho طاجين I feel like throwing up.

    And, Hex:

    "Like a lot of ACs (autistics and cousins), I find myself able t o enjoy 'community' for the first time through the internet. The style of communication suits me just fine because it is one-on-one, entirely under my control in terms of when and how long I engage in it, and, unlike real-life encounters, allows me enough time to figure out and formulate my responses. In real-world encounters with groups--even very small groups--of people, I am freighted with disadvantages."

    http://www.planetautism.com/jane/diff.html
  • William Cassidy do all members have to be removed in order for the page to be deleted?
  • Josephine Piarulli Good question, William.
  • Leslie Miller to be fully deleted yes
  • Cristie Paris maybe shes going to keep the group and just ban the naysayers
  • Josephine Piarulli That takes real commitment and intention to delete that many people. It is premeditated.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I feel the same...but the internet's not dying. The OSD page is. There are many different, more productive avenues through which to explore writing online.
  • Cristie Paris yep im so glad i changed the twitter password all other media is secure peeps.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green JUST GOT CUT OFF!! CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION!!
  • Josephine Piarulli May I ask the admins of this page not to add Tracey as an admin and not nuke it. May I ask that also for OYC and OLB. Thanks
  • Cristie Paris I sure hope we have an archive of the group though
  • Leslie Miller You out now to?
    2,774 members...
  • Toddynho طاجين Hex, you don't understand. Because you see me write, you assume I can just sit down and do it. I can't. Plus, this is, I think, important history.
  • Cristie Paris they delete the group its like we didnt exist
  • Cristie Paris someone had to have archived i bet ray did
  • Josephine Piarulli Ray did you archive the OSD FB page?
  • Leslie Miller 2,760 members...
  • Leslie Miller I'll make sure it isn't if i'm there...
  • Josephine Piarulli I'm certain she will say it was for the good of Occupy b/c people were fighting or some such thing. I am sure she will defend herself.
  • Cristie Paris It was all 3 admins that voted to ban us It could be Kathy jsut as easily as Tracey.
  • Leslie Miller IMO we cant trust all 3. All or none
  • Josephine Piarulli Agree, Leslie. All 3 can't be trusted at this point.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green The historical argument made by Toddynho طاجين is the only one that makes sense to me. But it's time for some new history. I'm not saying it's easy...but that page disappearing isn't gonna make it MORE difficult to carry on. Christie Cristie Paris Your statement would be true if, instead of cells, we were all comprised of 1's & 0's...but luckily...we're not.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Who knows; we may even end up back in the streets:)
  • Cristie Paris Fresh start!
  • Josephine Piarulli After the first OSD page got nuked, I never thought I would see it happen again. Disheartening. But at least we have learned and we have other pages now.
  • Leslie Miller There is social media drama in OLA as well... its common and an easy way to cause fighting.
  • Cristie Paris Thats why its so important to have as much media as possible. Lets all rally around making anti drone days a success.
  • Leslie Miller I want to try to work on transpo for OLA to get there afor one of the days. Which one would you say is going to be the biggest day/most outreach? I would think either sat or sun, butwhat do you have planned?
  • Leslie Miller 2,734 members...
  • BrotherHexagon The Green BTW: FUCK WHAT Y'ALL SAYIN; I LOVE TRACY, regardless of the bullshit. She's doing what I would have done as an admin. The page was a crutch. Time for ALL of us to walk, now...
  • Josephine Piarulli What is it accomplishing by nuking the OSD FB page? There are other pages. Is she going to nuke all of them. It's not furthering anything. Abuse of power displayed.
  • Chris West Leslie Miller, Saturday there will be a demonstartion at the Midway followed by speakers in the evening, Sunday just a wrap up. Come Saturday or even Friday for Code Pink demos at General Atomics in Poway, then Friday PM at Norhthyrup gruman. Friday evening light birgade and socailizwer, maybe film. If you can come Friday and stay until Sunday. pardon typos!
  • Cristie Paris National Anti-Drone Days of Action

    Thursday April 4: Protest @ General Atomics plant (in Poway)
    Organizing org: Veterans for Peace
    Approx time: 3-6pm

    Friday April 5: Protest @ General Atomics headquarters (in La Jolla)
    Organizing org: Code Pink
    Approx time: AM

    Friday April 5: Protest @ Northrop Grumman (Ronson Rd. & Spectrum Way)
    Organizing org: Code Pink
    Approx time: 4-6:30

    * There will be an evening social gathering for locals and out of towners after the NG demonstration.
    * Location TBA
    * Not a priority for livestream

    Saturday April 6: Main Action @ Midway downtown
    Organizing org: (possibly) Women Occupy
    Approx time: late morning/ early afternoon

    Saturday April 6: Evening Forum
    Organizing org: Peace Resource Center of SD
    Approx time: 6-7 and on

    * Sunday April 7: General Assembly & Workshops
    * Location TBA
    * Time: 10am - 3pm
    * Not a priority for livestream
  • Cristie Paris I'm sorry the group is gone but we see people for what they are now or we refuse 2 after they just deleted our entire history. fucking trolls
  • Chris West Leslie Miller, I tagged you on Drone Days event page, check back at the thread later for details.
  • Chris West Isn't someone getting repetitive motion injury by now?
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Anoki Net you've been walking for too many of us, because too many were stuck on a screen. You've shouldered a LOT of the burden of the group's inaction. If anyone deserves to be free from it, it's you...so I feel you. Josephine Piarulli Why do YOU think it happened? It was being called for. San Diego's Occupation has been inactive since the Summer of 2012. Why? INACTION. We were the most comfortable, most apathetic, least passionate, most egoic, complicit, and most isolated/out-of-touch occupation in the West Coast. Don't take my word for it; ask around. We wanted to rail at some separate malady from the safety of our computer-screens. Put the blame on politicians from a voting booth. All the while running for our lives from the idea that being stuck in boxes might be our fault...for allowing it. What has the OSD page REALLY done to grow numbers? Actions? Meetings? Community? Now stack that up against what it has done to divide us? Facilitate the sabotage of our actions? Allow for people to get stuck in a gross imbalance of worlds between the mind & heart, the individual & the environment? Dropping that page to me is symbolic, more than a cureall. It says to me "Let's not get stuck."
  • Cristie Paris u know how bad they have salivated and tried for getting GA to agree to nuking the page. This is a joyous day for the infiltrators. You cant kill an idea by nuking our page or breaking up our GA.
  • Leslie Miller I agree with Hex on all counts
  • BrotherHexagon The Green For the infiltrators? Whaddya mean? That page is how they found us!!
  • Josephine Piarulli So, Leslie, will you be nuking this page, too?
  • Leslie Miller No, I like this page. And im not nuking any pages
  • Ray Lutz I gave up archiving the page in about Feb 2012. I still have a lot of the old stuff including information about who started it just prior to the first march. I think it is a shame that someone took it in their own hands to delete the group as it had a lot of history. Very sad.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Idunno if Leslie's got that ability, but even if she does, this page appears more suited to the actuall sharing of information & mature, fruitful dialogue. As long as it stays that way, I'm sure we'll have nothing to worry about...PLUS. All we really need is event-pages, anyway, if we're being honest with ourselves. I'm all for an onion-router social network, anyway...
  • BrotherHexagon The Green 2,554. REMEMBER, FRIENDS!! The group is not a website. It's PEOPLE...
  • Cristie Paris I'm the only admin right now but im willing to add someone after we all settle down a little and decide on someone together, It wont be any current admins on that page though. I created this group over a year ago when Rick Halsey banned me for calling him out.
  • Josephine Piarulli And so the same people that were on the OSD FB page are here. So what difference is there, other than we've lost some information, but moved the members here.
  • Cristie Paris Also I dont let phony profiles <no real picture and not many friends>in and its a closed group so someone has to be a member at least to see your posts. Still probably being watched by authorities but at least your posts dont go out to all your friends feeds like in open groups.
  • Damian Tryon wow, a common enemy/event really does seem to unify... doesn't this seem like a completely underblown version of the ending of Watchmen Hex? btw, you still got my copy? not that I need it back just thinking of good times.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I just got up to date, but it looks like you have a gestapo.
  • Nan Di Giovanni no here.. .in the other room.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I haven't been allowed into Occupy San Diego since Tracey became admin.
  • Cristie Paris shes nuking the page nan
  • Nan Di Giovanni I know many of you just thought I was being bitchy, about what she did to me- not just on FB but at my own home... I hope your eyes are open now.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Josephine Piarulli The difference, like that between our present & future, will be up to what we want it to be...Damian Tryon Right!?! Totally does, & Yes, I do. We've actually got another copy @ the house as well, so whenever you need it back, lemme know...
  • Nan Di Giovanni and if you really ever want to hear he story about Jay Polk, just ask. She went the opposite direction from what she told me. I saw reports she ran on several SD people, she showed them to me while eating fish in Carlsbad, she got angry that I didn't want to read them.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I wondered if there was one on me too.. in the stack.
  • Damian Tryon My bad I didn't mean my copy as in I owned it. I meant my copy as in I have fond memories of that book (for example, it was an excellent stream of consciousness guide map through Utah). But I won't need it back I'm glad it's in good hands. Enjoy brother.
  • Damian Tryon Everybody puts down Kumbaya moments but can everybody stop grinding axes long enough to say something that they appreciate about one other person here? That would be a nice change of pace.
  • Kali Katt i love knowing people who are as passionate as me in all these issues. ...
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I love that NO ONE READING THIS would rather be shoe-shopping:)
  • Josephine Piarulli I love all the effort that many good people have done in this movement, Kali, Donna, Cristie, Anoki, Chris, Barb, Nan. Very long list, too many to name. I appreciate all that you've done.
  • Damian Tryon I love that funky cart and wagon that ray built . Lots of fond late-night memories there too.
  • Nan Di Giovanni well, I happen to see so many wonderful, compassionate here, people I am proud to call my friends.
  • Nan Di Giovanni who has everyone's back and the earth's back too. Isn't this what it's all about, getting back to fairness.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Laws that make sense, booting out corruption. Equal means equal.
  • Cristie Paris this will make us stronger! Unify against corruption wherever it occurs. please tell me someone has it archived though.
  • Nan Di Giovanni it's so funny, I watched a great show on PBS about the Feminist movement, and it really opened my eyes on just how little things have changed. So many of the same issues, while in midst of a terrible war. I don't think I know a single person from my college days that didn't have a family member or friend lost in Viet Nam.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I say this often. San Diego- you are a MAJOR West Coast city. You should be the group that others look to for guidance and solidarity. I hope, with every fiber in my being, that everyone can get back on track. It's spring, time to renew. I see so many wonderful people, don't let one or two ruin the entire bag. You are a strong group, a smart group. Make some plans.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I'm buzzed... sorry for rambling. lol
  • Gillette West Leslie Miller, who is deleting the group? DO you have a link to the person's FB profile? If they were not the person who created the group, they can be sued.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Also, met the love of my life, my roommates, a number of my closest friends (and worthiest oponents) and my more focused self...on that CC-ground.
  • Gillette West Also, Leslie, do you have a link to the group or to what used to be the group?
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I think we should always nuke the page. Do it periodically. And have someone consistently archive the page. That way, we keep our valued documentation, throw off infiltrators/pigs/trolls, discourage spectators from getting stagnant...and have everyone on here know that if shit doesn't stay productive...someone just might burn the whole fucker down:) Thoughts?
  • Damian Tryon 2,527 and counting... I know this was not about one or two people this was about all of us forgetting how to treat each other. We all decided to take on the hard task of confronting the system. It's not easy, it doesn't come with an instruction manual, and you will get beaten up from all sides including your own. And that will suck the life and wind out of anybody. Be better to each other please. So just dont try to be right, try to be kind and understanding. Isn't that what we want society to be?
  • Cristie Paris no this comes with them being wrong and not having a way to fix it so they just burnt the page down.
  • Cristie Paris I dont want them coming near me.
  • Kali Katt i agree. this was calculated
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Well....I dunno who's wrong & who's not in the personal saop opera, but I'm not talking about that. It inspired a bigger idea than the problem it came from.
  • Cristie Paris yes work with who you feel comfortable.
  • Kali Katt im only glad it happened as it exposes the ones doing it
  • Cristie Paris yes i was really getting tired of being taunted by Kathy.
  • Cristie Paris and threatened by Tracey good riddance
  • Damian Tryon … And we've come full circle. I'm out of here back to work. Keep picking at that scab, I'm sure it'll get better soon.
  • Kali Katt do downplay the implrtance of social media is ridiculous. it is a way to reach people. having a page with over 3,000 people in san diego on it be deleted is not something that helps to get in touch with more people - it disconnects people. dont get it twisted
  • Cristie Paris yes and its extremely malicous imho
  • Kali Katt and talking about what has happend is not picking at the scab
  • Kali Katt certain people constantly try to make me feel bad for speaking my mind by inserting subtle digs in their remarks
  • Cristie Paris Violations of trust by taking down our group page will not be forgotten.
  • Donna Piranha i love you people.
    no ... really.

    "... and just like that, something new and beautiful began evolving."

    To Be Continued ...
  • Cristie Paris whats the count now is it there or not? Maybe shes just deleting all the current members?
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Kali Katt It certainly disconnects people...from their comfort-zones...You're right. But the internet is HUGE. And we could pick up wherever the hell we want to, and the people among those 3000-or-other people who actually give a shit will make it a point to be right there with us, and the dead weight will not. We may need that. I don't think anyone is downplaying the importance of social media; just being realistic about the adverse effects of being exclusively dependent on it for social movements. If OSD were an actual movement, the dropping of one webpage wouldn't be such a monumental/tragic (depending on how you're looking at this) disconnect, cuz we'd actually be CONNECTED & too busy MOVING!! Our foundations need to be more maleable & less finite/centralized, anyway, I feel...if this is some sort of personal cat-fight, then 1) that really sucks, 2) the few people involved are guilty, and 3) Thank you!! You (involved) did EXACTLY what you were meant to, and the results were exactly what we needed...But it is MOST DEFINITELY TIME to flip the script NOW. 2,518!!!
  • Cristie Paris Barb says shes still on the page. Maybe its not being took down?
  • Josephine Piarulli Only the complacent will get to remain?
  • Kali Katt it wasnt a cat fight. like always it was people standing up for themselves ...downplayed to cat fighting....why cause we were all three female?
  • Kali Katt there was nothing personal about was going on imo
  • Kali Katt but whatever - it is not the end of the world - but it is what it is - i do have other things to do as well that are for sure more important than a facebook page.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Sorry, I meant no gender-association behind the term (at least not concsiously). I was just trying to illustrate the potential of it having been a small issue that snowballed, like the way cats fight. BUT, if not personal...how do you know fer sure that it was exactly 3 people, who were all female? All I'm sayin is...it's either one to grow on...or the same ol' shit. It's up to us...
  • Nan Di Giovanni Kathy reamed me up and down the other, saying I couldn't see past a middle aged white priledged lady's nose on any issue. I am not middle aged. I did, however, find out SHE is a middle aged white woman.
  • Cristie Paris she reamed me to.
  • Nan Di Giovanni we need to send her a pair of tweezers, to get the stick out of her ass. lol.
  • Cristie Paris It wasnt a small issue lets not sugar coat it. Destroying something malicously that belongs to the group is unconscionable.
  • Cristie Paris Thats trust that can never be restored. EVER
  • Nan Di Giovanni very true, If I was lesbian, it wouldn't be an issue. But being a senior white woman, who is college educated (paid for by ME), doesn't count.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green ...I've got netflix for TV shows/drama if I wanna watch 'em...If you insist on refusing to allow this to be anything but a fight/gossip column...That's ego. check it, or kiss your opportunity goodbye. NOTE: I deliberately neglected to put a name on that so it would apply to everyone it needs to.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green This bickery shit's why the last page got nuked...NOW: Speaking of netfilx...PEACE OUT!!
  • Donna Piranha i came here to fight corruption and help to expose it so The People could unite together against it. That's what just happened, on a small scale, on the OSD Group page. i am not a "cat-fighter," and have tried to be a pillar of support for all of the women in Occupy, especially the marginalized or disheartened. There is no pleasure, no satisfaction, no ego involved around the events that occurred on the other page. i was either numb with shock or crying for two days while my "Character Assassination" unfolded on the page, much of it while i was unmembered and unable to defend myself, much less counter the vicious lies and contortions that were slandering me unjustly. i am not an "alpha female" & have never acted in that manner at OSD. Rather, alpha females targetted me and always tried to bring me down. i want to rise ... and continue to fight Social & Economic Justice. That's it.
  • Ray Lutz FB makes it really hard to archive what is in the group... they constantly change the structure of the page, even though it may look the same to the user. That way, it is hard to design a machine that can suck up all the content... they are very fearful that people will suck out the content and put it somewhere else.

    Because I feared this might happen, and because it is a bitch to go back in time in these groups, we still have a great deal of content on the occupy web of the copswiki.org site, including all the email blasts, media that was gathered up by Josephine Piarulli, calendar entries of events.. thank you also Chris West.

    And no, "nuking the page frequently" is a silly idea. The whole idea is not just to carry on in meaningless conversation, but to build something that will last. Unfortunately, FB does not help in that regard, and that's why I build stuff that will last on a wki, because you can organize it.

    I had a whole lot of links to submissions that would still be accessible if the page was not totally deleted.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green "I'm getting both heat and thanks. It's running 2aginst one on average. I didn't do it by myself. We will also archive the group, so it's not a bookburning, and let the group stand as a historical record, open to anyone. We will publish a statement after we finish disabling the group. I expect to be the most hated person alive for a long time, but if kt makes people get off their ass, do some real community building, forces them to address the real issues that make up the structural problems that disempower us - it was worth it. We cannot argue another world is possible if we do not have the courage to try and create a different world. The basic founding principals of horizontalism, mutual aid, self empowerment had all been extinguished. And we have a cops wife trying to discredit witnesses who are standing up for our fellow peeps in court. That a great way to thank people who stuck their necks out while others hid behind computer screens. All the power strustures were replicating themselves (hell it was already well replicated back in the days of the grassy knoll) and left unchecked they'd soon be coronating a king - heehaw. Fuck that! No one said we weren't gonna take some hits along the way right. Now is just my turn to take one for the team. It sucks though." --Tracey. NOW DESTROY YOURSELVES if that's what you want. Quit wasting time
  • Kali Katt OMG Puuuuulease
  • Kali Katt tracey is so full of it and hex you are making me wonder about you too
  • Kali Katt nuking a page is not going to get anybody off their ass nor force anyone to address any issues, what a fucking joke
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Hahahahaha have fun with that;)
  • Kali Katt i dont think this is affecting us the way you think it is hex. but its trippy you are having so much fun thinking we care so much
  • Nan Di Giovanni Tracey has wanted to take down the site for a year. She claims all her "actiivist" experience has her believing it's the wrong thing to have. You know, I've been working with food kitchens for over 20 years in this county, no one person I know has ever heard of Tracey, who claims she has worked and managed soup kitchens ... and she also taught a class at Cal State SM, she was a student.. last I heard, students don't teach classes.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I wish I had a dime for everytime she gave me the speech "I've been an activist for 20 years". Where was she during the feminist movement, Roe versus Wade, 29 yr olds right to vote, just to mention a few. She didn't invent social movements.
  • Nan Di Giovanni there is a pattern here, if you are strong personality, not afraid to call out shit, get popular and respected.. as all you ladies are... she gets rid of you. She wants the limelight. She does good things, but has to have credit for it, even the shit she makes up. And everyone else's too. I am sorry to tell you, if you have sexual problems, on medication, anything you confided in her, she's told me about it. I am smart enough to know if a person talks about everyone, they talk about you too. All I would have to do is mention a name, and she would give me the "low down" on everyone. It's the limelight she loves, craves. Like people who give you a gift, then talk about that they gave it to you for the next year. If you are like me, you'd just wish they'd take it back, it wasn't given in the right spirit.
  • Nan Di Giovanni my old friend Corrie Ten Boon, taught me that there is good in any situation, you just have to be willing to see it. So, be happy this is happening, as it allows people to hang themselves and show their true colors. Best to just get it over with and move on. Let it make you stronger, not weaker.
  • Nan Di Giovanni beat her at her own game. Knowing you are being fair, is the best revenge.
  • Nan Di Giovanni on an upside,walker William Terzin is sitting in my living room. He's going to show me the how to on his new website. Please join us in the walker page, we are like a family. We never speak disrespectful to each other, work in the spirit of teamwork, and simply enjoy each other's company. It really is a group of simply really nice people.
  • Josephine Piarulli She can permanently block people and even nuke the page, but there are other pages and people will still be active, so she's not going to impede people. But she has shown us how she is.
  • William Terzin Let's be real about it. I had the lady blocked for over a year. Everyone saw this coming. Not too many people can create drama giving away food--she was good at it from the beginning.
  • Toddynho طاجين "...if [it] makes people get off their ass, do some real community building..."

    It did the opposite.
  • Cristie Paris what u mean todd?
  • Toddynho طاجين I mean that people were going to be meeting tonight precisely for the purpose of "some real community building," and this rogue admin(s) bullshit destroyed it.
  • Cristie Paris what else do you call admins who ban longstanding members of the group and then destroy and disable and start removing members like 800 of them so far from our group?
  • Donna Piranha ^ Todd, the forces against us do not WANT us meeting
  • Donna Piranha these are distractions ... we hafta get over the constant head games. They are exposed. Now let's rebuild. We could never have trust & community with traitors in our midst who were always stirring up trouble. Even now they are still stirring up trouble at the other page. We MUST ignore it ... give it no energy .., focus on Social & Economic Justice ... and not let any so obviously try to sabotage this group again.
  • Josephine Piarulli It's down to the 1600 something range
  • Barb Dunsmore Wow, now it's 1,060. That's about 84 members per hour. I'd say their upload speed to NSA is mighty slow.
  • Barb Dunsmore 1,045 now. I stand corrected. That's about 75 per hour.
  • Chris West Repetitive injury syndrome knocking on the door.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Ha! I was inspired by one of Todd's last posts on that other page to look for something by Ms. Dickinson that's fitting. This is the one I came up with.: "You cannot put a Fire out
    A Thing that can ignite
    Can go, itself, without a Fan—
    Upon the slowest Night

    You cannot fold a Flood
    And put it in a Drawer
    Because the Winds would find it out
    And tell your Cedar Floor"

    Emily Dickinson
  • Jay Sun You can focus on the bad, or the good. It's completely subjective if this is "good" or "bad". I think it's good because people need to evolve to a next level beyond facebook. We need to decentralize and remain horizontal as a core Occupy principle. The admins with the power to enforce a heirarchical system of a few controlling the many, just like our current global oppression. This is a lesson.
  • Cristie Paris yes we stay one step ahead by having another group ready though. Now what?
  • Donna Piranha ^ We never let it happen again. This is one of three things i posted right before i was banned with ni warning, but after my Character Assassination the previous day:

    http://holliedemandsjustice.org/how-the-infiltrators-and-disinformation-agents-work/

    How the Infiltrators and Disinformation Agents work | Hollie Demands Justice holliedemandsjustice.org

    How the Infiltrators and Disinformation Agents workI thought I would share with ...

  • Thomas Lee Schneider I think it sucks that there were efforts to get people together on the ground again, some convoluted (imo) arguments were made against it, then the next day the page is nuked.
  • Brad Kelly And down goes another page...i declare today mental health awareness day.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Raise your hand if you honestly needed that page intact to meet up tonight.
  • Barb Dunsmore It's not about needing that page. It's the damn principal of what they've done. This was a planned attack. Can you not see that Hex?
  • Jay Sun Things got unpredictable again.... I think that's an improvement.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Was the page nuked because there were signs people wanted to reorganize a bit?
  • Jay Sun Kind of like a catalyzing event.
  • Barb Dunsmore Ever since Will posted about Let's restart Occupy, GAs, etc... a week or so ago, it's all gone down hill
  • Jay Sun We can do whatever we want. We don't need a page to tell us
  • Donna Piranha WE ARE UNSTOPPABLE
  • Barb Dunsmore Yes we can, and we will, and we already are. But we need to be clear about what's gone down.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider A philosphy of Deconstructionism seems present here. I've barely studied it, but iI think there are better things to Deconstruct than Occupy FB pages.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I can see that the Occupiers in San Diego have a choice. Be distracted by comfort & drama...or be prepared for some real life. I didn't go to that meeting cuz my faith is (justifiably) very low in OSD. Y'all excuse was that someone took your facebook page away. Case in point.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I don't think anyone used that excuse did they?
  • Thomas Lee Schneider One was postponed, I believe.
  • Jay Sun Totally agree Hex. That page was confining us to petty nonsense.
  • Donna Piranha i would really appreciate the opportunity to tell what happened to me, the Character Assassination by James Bartolli and Tammy Martin, purposrly disinforming others to try to discredit me. Then when i post an article & two comments illustrating the methods used, i am banned within what seemed like MINUTES.

    All of this is because WE ARE NOT DEAD, we are probably stronger than ever .., phuck i NEVER expected this kind of mutiny ... but like Hex sez: it was way time for CHANGE. i could use a good evolving right now ...
  • Barb Dunsmore No, I was working, though I wanted to go
  • Donna Piranha All i know is i Occupy the shit outta whatever i can, almost 24/7, i m homeless for a year now, currently sleeping in my truck at a campground, and feeling like everything is exactly the way it should be. i ferr so ... calm, like a huge stress has been removed.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green If people gave enough of a shit about being on the ground, unlearning our self-destructive patterns, and creating an alternative community...as you did about keeping your soap opera on the air...we'd be strong enough to function w/o a facebook group page. Ask Madrid, Tehrir, Montreal, Oakland...but it's the fucking Facebook-alypse for all of us here in TV Land, and we just CAN'T handle it!!! Forget what we're HERE for; we got cut off at the best part of the SHOW!!!!! Sorry, my violin broke.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green And there are indeed better things to deconstruct....but the reason WHY they need deconstruction is no different.
  • Toddynho طاجين Hex, all your talk about fighting for a genuinely inclusive movement is sounding pretty empty to me now.
  • Donna Piranha i m a woman ... i get it ... i'll just shut up and get back into the kitchen to cook the snacks for the barbeque ... sorry to think that the one time i need to talk - about the attack i just was subjected to which was deleted - is just too inconvenient for any of you to fit into this "new start."
  • Jay Sun Toddynho طاجين : I was at Downtown Johnny Browns tonight. It was an awesome GA.
  • Jay Sun A GA of one.
  • Donna Piranha ^ was there consensus?
  • Jay Sun It was cool though since I got to be reminded of the actual Occupy, not the "online" version of it. Let's just get active and associate with people who have a similar viewpoint. Then each group can join together when there is agreement.
  • Jay Sun Yes, I consented everything I proposed.. lol
  • Thomas Lee Schneider A GA of One- album title?
  • Donna Piranha "One is all we need ..."
    sang to "Love is all we need" (Beatles)
  • Barb Dunsmore Donna, I don't think anyone doubts your character, passion or loyalty to Occupy, least of all me. Someon!e had to take it on the chin to bring the house of cards down. orry it had to be you, but you should wear it as a badge of honor
  • Jay Sun Thank you Donna!
  • Donna Piranha i don't need no stinking badge
  • Jay Sun Down with hierarchy!
  • Donna Piranha i just want to be able to te the truth about what happened to me. Maybe all you young-uns can get up and brush yourself off quickly, but i am still hurting, crying, and old -especially after all that ... i just want to Speak the Truth Even if My Voice Shakes. But not on this noche ... my heart is still a little broken. They are still lying about me on the other page ... i m not used to such treatment. i really need a hug, but instead i keep
    being told to shut up. i m sorry this is hard for me ... i will be stronger. Just not today. Maybe after i find someone to give me a hug.
  • Jay Sun Take care Donna. Let's have an open stack or something about this or whatever else. I think that would bring back the spirit of Occupy. People talking real but necessarily always political and trying to be right or in control. Being under someone's thumb online is not Occupy. Meeting and talking in person is.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Are they still posting on that page?
  • Donna Piranha YES ... down to like 174 people
  • Barb Dunsmore No, last post was about 4 hrs ago, but it dropped to 174 when Tracey went offline about 1:30 ish. more games
  • Thomas Lee Schneider It's a lameass freaking way to end a page. But best to move on, though of course. And hugs to you, Donna.
  • Barb Dunsmore {{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}
  • Barb Dunsmore It's intentional Thomas, she's taunting us
  • Barb Dunsmore I gotta get some sleep. Stay safe Donna
  • Donna Piranha thanks, Barb u too
  • Jay Sun Good night everyone. Sleep well Donna
  • Donna Piranha thanks ... you too!
  • Thomas Lee Schneider very Waltons night all.
  • Donna Piranha night John Boy
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Todd...why? Did I not take the proper side, here? I don't think we're weak enough to get deleted along with a fb group page. Especially when there are so many more...FULL of people to reach out to. If we are, it's not cuz I pointed out a couple of our flaws. What's exclusive about that? Did anyone die? Can we never write/share information again? Or are we all alive & well? The only thing that really got destroyed last night were a few illusions and a comfort zone. And honestly, I hope they're not as easily replaced as everything else is gonna be.
  • Barb Dunsmore OSD group page now down to 173, one more member removed.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Dammit!! Missed 187...
  • Barb Dunsmore Who knew we had 173 spies.
  • Chris West SFU&BS - know who not to trust now. Regardless of reason breach of trust was the real offense. And for a LOT of people.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I seriously doubt the 173 or whatever people that are left on the page even know what's up.
  • Donna Piranha ^ or, they're permanent, unremovable accounts of the FBI, CIA, DHS, etc whoever's unenviable job it is to watch the "Occupy San Diego" show for a living. We don't need "Reality TV," ... we've had that down. Time for REAL LIFE.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green This isn't a Jason Bourne movie. I dunno if any of you read the posts blasted all over the place...but everyone has to be removed one-by-one, then the admins will have to leave, in order to delete the page. People are WAY too quick to call 'snitch' on people around here. State agencies don't give enough of a shit about Occupy San Diego to send as many snitches/infiltrators as y'all are dreaming up. Not to SD. As far as they're concerned it's all capitalist Dems over here. They only part with those kinds of resources when something scares them. We're not scary.
  • Barb Dunsmore That's who I meant by 'spies' Donna
  • Donna Piranha ^ Disagree Hex ... major port, international borders, many Occupy groups spread over a large area, 2nd largest city in the 2nd largest state ... Someone has a FOIA request in, so i'm sure we'll find out for sure at such time as that document actually becomes available & public.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green After actually seeing poverty & police/state repression my whole life, in the areas where it actually happens...I've had no problems pointing out a snitch (which is peasant for 'spy', Barb). There are nowhere near as many as you think. If I see 'em...I just call 'em out once (like an adult), then block them. Most of the people I see pointing fingers are the most out of touch & least likely to recognize an undercover if they dropped their badge. A few others...well, I'm waiting to be sure before I call em out.
  • Cristie Paris Deleting the group means >>>>>>>no confidence. She violated us all. All 3,400 memebers. Shes not welcome here EVER!
  • Cristie Paris I find it vile that peeps would still be defending her behavior!
  • BrotherHexagon The Green BTW Barb if you're implying I'm a spy...I got kicked off around 8:00ish last night. Now everyone put the Tom Clancy books down & chill for a bit.
  • Josephine Piarulli Not to mention violation of trust, but also not following horizontal beliefs, not discussing it with people, just unilaterally de-admin of Alan and starts deleting people. No one annoited her queen to do whatever she wants. This smacks of 1% in our own group, doing whatever she wants and the people be damned.
  • Donna Piranha i also think the last few days gave us some cred. i know it's unbelievable to think that little ole OSD is so important, but it is. COINTELPRO is alive and just got their butts kicked. It's not a Jason Bourne movie, unfortunately it's all too real. And i think it sucks to have to even deal with it, but being open & aware keeps the group safe. That's why i wish transparency was not such an opposing force for maintaining our privacy as well. Just my own thoughts. i've always promoted more education on Security Culture, and feel it is super important. imo
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Something not mentieoned much - I noticed this started right after Kathy said she wanted to step down from the admin spot. , Some nominations were made.
  • Barb Dunsmore You're to gorgeous to be a spy Hex, not implying that at all
  • Kali Katt cointelpro is still operating and alive and well. i believe there are more spies than i imagine, not less
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Also for the record (lol) there were 28 likes on the proposal to reOccupy. Spies should be assimilated! Hopefully someday sheer numbers will make them irrelevant.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Hehe just got a more well-rounded word on the story behind the original banning. Anyone can snap. You don't know what people are goin through...Especially when surrounded by what she's surrounded by. I know a few of the occupiers I talked to (the ones who actually DID get followed around by police) are as happy as I am about it. Kinda been wishing someone would do it the whole time. No one can hear why over the sound of their fury, so I won't bother. But I stand by Tracey. Cuz I get it. Should've been done more horizontally, but how is that gonna fly in a circle of drama-junkies? I wish it had been archived...but if we keep sharing info, & start achieving shit...there'll be plenty more history to come. I understand why people who've done nothing BUT chat online would see this as more devastating, but hey; one person admins damn near every other occupy page. So as long as they don't get pissed at what you say, you guys won't have to worry about getting shaken up again...
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Supposedly it is being archived -Tracey posted such.
  • Kali Katt why do you keep perpetuating the idea hex that we are all drama junkies? that is so fucked up imo. that is what they always try to do to activists.....say we are all just crazy. whats your deal lately?
  • Kali Katt also the REAL issue of losing that page is that over 3000 people got info on there. most of those people dont know you or me from squat
  • Kali Katt it is NOT egotistical to want to keep a page around to get INFO to OTHER fucking people
  • Josephine Piarulli If trying to organize at FP or wherever, making plans is drama, we are guilty.
  • Josephine Piarulli Plans were being made. How is that being brushed under the rug?
  • Kali Katt you and me and tracey and josephin e and donna nad crsitie were NOT the only people on that page and just becuase we have all reunited we have still lost an AVENUE to give INFO to people. if you cant see how that is a loss i am at a serious mother fucking loss with what is important
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Losing an organizational tool seems stupid, imo. Shoulda just gotten all new admins.
  • Kali Katt it IS egotistical to think that just becuase YOU are ok with the fucking page being deleted that it is what is good for the other 3000 FUCKING PEOPLE who had no idea what was even going on and may have no other good sources to get news from
  • Thomas Lee Schneider The phrase "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." has come to mind several times.
  • Kali Katt its like there is absolutely no concern for anyone but our small little group. what happened to caring about getting info to other people. oph yeah the INFILTRATORS are STILL trying to distract us
  • BrotherHexagon The Green We shall see...but let's not depend on ifs; let's make some new shit happen. I for one don't think we should get stuck on one GROUP, let alone names, websites or locations. If we have a problem like this again, it'll be because we, as a whole, were not focused enough.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider None of us were "stuck in one group", we gotta lotsa groups.
  • Kali Katt again it has nothing to do wtih being "stuck" in a group. it has everything to do with getting information to other people. a group that has 3000 people in it gets more info to more people than a group that has 400. that cant really be debated. social media is a numbers game. and that is what THIS is ...social media. nothing more nothing less
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Kali: 1) I don't perpetuate that idea. All the drama does. Plus I didn't even mention ANY of the names you dropped, specfically...sooooooooo 2) If I'm missing something, and that page was the only place on Earth where people could get/share info, then I stand corrected. Buuuuuuut... 3) Wanna make plans? MAKE THEM. There is NOTHING in the way except your own whatever-you-wanna-call-it-if-not-drama. 4) It's not egotistical to prefer community to computer-screens. But it IS egotistical to assume that about 2.5 thousand people you don't even know...have just got NO OTHER WAY/CLUE how to get access to this news when they're on the same fuckin internet as you are; that none of them were capable of connecting themselves w/o the "Mighty Guiding Hand of That One OSD Page". If that many people REALLY ARE just floundering in the air lost now, after all this time & all that info...it's all the more proof that the page was ineffective. I maintain the only things we really lost are some illusions about our self-importance, a comfort-zone, a portion of online-fanclub attention (numbers on a screen; cuz I don't see 'em growin on the ground), and unfortunately, some pretty sweet memories. Which really does suck, I admit:( Still nothing fatal though...Now, If that's all you cared about, then it was an epic tragedy (+further support for the decentralization argument). But if not, it was just Thursday night. 'One to grow on'??Or 'Same Old Shit'?? You decide...
  • BrotherHexagon The Green There are drones coming home to spy on us. Rebellions on the other coast, killer cops all over the country, essential social programs getting slashed while we still go broke and die for these companies (one of which OWNS this website we're so fucking dependent on) genocides in multiple countries, funded by the same companies, poisonous food...and the most important thing to discuss is how your feelings got hurt? But it's not the drama distracting us, right? Oh, no; couldn't POSSIBLY be our own responsibility... "PLEASE let it be someone else's fault--I KNOW!! Must be secret government SPIES!!"....That's how scary it is/was to own up, for too many of the people on that page who weren't just enjoying the show. That's what kept OSD (online AND off) so ineffective. And that's why the site got nuked. You don't have to be an infiltrator to disagree
  • Kali Katt i haven talked about my feelings once
  • Kali Katt the medias job has always been to get info to the people.....and yes it is hard for many people to get good sources of news with the msm being so corrupt
  • Kali Katt it is not 2.5 thousand people ...it was 3000 people
  • Kali Katt why is it always all or nothing with you people? just because i am defending the importance of a group page does not mean that is ALL i care about OR that ALL is lost. YOu are puting many words in my mouth hex
  • Kali Katt and again you keep ONLY talking about the conversations that went on. MOST people on that page did not participate in those convos but DID view the many links of info that were pasted to that group. i got a few emails from people asking me where they can get info now. those were people who knew me. most people on that page did not know you or me and we have now lost contact/connection with them. no one is saying this is more important than being on the street ...or that that even equals boots on the ground. providing TRUE information to people is important. that page was ONE place to do it ---of all the pages we have left that one had the MOST people on it. Even if the info people was getting did not YET entice them to come to an event does mean there is no value in them ingesting that information
  • Kali Katt i mentioned the people i mentioned randomly - my point is there is a small handful of us who even know what happened - for a majority of the people on that page they dont even know what happened ....but definitely wont be seeing the links posted to that page anymore.
  • Kali Katt anyways ill stop dominating this thread. media/info is important to me. possibly even more important than being on the streets. i guess we can agree to disagree hex.
  • Josephine Piarulli I agree with everything you have said, Kali.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Damn. Now all they're left with is the measly old REST OF THE INTERNET (where WE got it from in the first place). If you're really worried about it, blast 'em off your own page. Replace them on this page, maybe. As for your following...they're made of an entire civilization of people in the same society. If they're really interested, they'll be fine finding info without you. If not, they were just numbers on a screen...which didn't translate to numbers anywhere else. You tellin' me none of these people are using these links? None of the 3000 (I assumed you knew a few hundred) people were paying enough attention to where they were coming from to find more, if they were actually interested in doing so? None of them shared that info? If that's the case then the page wasn't working so well anyway.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I just read myself and saw that I may come off as discouraging to the already discouraged. I don't mean to be. On the contrary, my whole point is that we ARE capable of continuing to do what we're doing...and if we avoid the same distractions, we could be capable of doing it even better. That's all
  • Kali Katt right. even though tracey reardon odman nuked our occupy san dieg ogroup page, you are right that we are still capable of continuing to do what we're doing
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Yep. It would be a sad story if we couldn't:)
  • Kali Katt soon people will be able to turn on their radio and get some of this info..we are turning the switch on soon https://www.facebook.com/KNSJRadio?ref=hl

    KNSJ 89.1 FM

    Our mission is to fulfill the FCC license and be broadcasting on-air at 89.1 FM ...

    Page: 233 like this

  • Nan Di Giovanni um, why can't you just start a NEW page, and not allow her and her croonies in?
  • Nan Di Giovanni I can't see Hex's posts, I blocked him a long time ago.
  • Nan Di Giovanni it's easier to nuke the page. for Tracey, then to answer the concerns people have about her. I call that chicken shit.
  • Kali Katt we are having a launch party may 11 at the Mission Gorge Visitor ctre - more details coming later
  • Barb Dunsmore When I was driving to Light the Ban on Puppy Mills action tonight 105.7 The Walrus radio station was talking about Rand Paul's fillibuster last week on Obama's right to Drone Kill American citizens. We should contact the station and ask them to promote April 4-7 Drone Day Action.
  • Barb Dunsmore OSD group page is down to 7 members. Wonder why she didn't just blow it up for good at 9:11 pm - kinda thought she might.
  • Barb Dunsmore I hope someone is looking into criminal charges against Tracey. I can not see how what she has done is legal.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I love the way you think Barb.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Has anyone thought of paying her a visit and find out from the horses mouth what's going on? pun intended
  • Thomas Lee Schneider It's interesting to review the final posts on that page, especially the one about reOccupying. David Jacobs wanted to nuke it too? That surprised me a little.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Someone should message Tracey, if they haven't already.
  • Barb Dunsmore I'd rather see her in court than message her
  • Thomas Lee Schneider It all depends on who started the page originally doesn't it? Not sure, really. She did have plenty of encouragement to nuke the page from a vocal minority.
  • Barb Dunsmore I have no doubt it was her intention to nuke the page all along. Don't kid yourself.
  • Barb Dunsmore We'd all be wise to read this article Donna posted yesterday and just before Tracey banned her http://holliedemandsjustice.org/how-the-infiltrators-and-disinformation-agents-work/

    How the Infiltrators and Disinformation Agents work | Hollie Demands Justice holliedemandsjustice.org

    How the Infiltrators and Disinformation Agents workI thought I would share with ...

  • Kali Katt i started that page originally. same with the first that got nuked over a year ago. same with the occupysd twitter account
  • Barb Dunsmore From Tracey 15 minutes ago on OSD page: All files and posts on this page at the time the two admins decided to depopulate the page, and end the toxic dialougue that dominated it, will be permanently preserved, the group will remain open and viewable to all, and no data will be lost. Every post made, including posts deleted by their authors has been archived in a dedicated account as well. A formal statement will follow this in a few days. The admins - TO and KS
  • Kali Katt psychopaths
  • Thomas Lee Schneider "depopulate" is a rather sinister word.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider It might be good to confirm this with Kathy
  • Kali Katt kathy sorrel and tracey odman have lost their minds. i personally will be very cautious of both of them in public.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I messaged T but haven't gotten a reply.
  • Chris West I will continue to send join requests. Again it's not an issue of why this happened, it's an issue of trust. Kathy and Tracey have taken upon it themselves to violate the group's guidelines that they referred to from time to time and break my trust and that of many other people. The explanation of why it was done is secondary. Broken trust is the issue here. I would suggest anyone who does not approve of the way that this was handled to continuue to SEND JOIN REQUESTS.
  • Nan Di Giovanni just about this time last year, she told me her intention was to get rid of Facebook, as the oogey oogey boogie man was watching it.. get real...and it was bad for a movement. You know, I can't really remember a long history that social movements are hurt by social media - maybe it's just her 20 devoted years to activism experience that leads her to believe that is true.
  • David Jacob I backed up a few episodes of Cali Shore but that's about it
  • Nan Di Giovanni I'm not that paranoid about having sites monitored, as we do nothing illegal at all. When we do, then I will worry about it.
  • Barb Dunsmore Chris, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction. We need to move on...without them.
  • Nan Di Giovanni great line, David.
  • Chris West Yes I know we need to abandon tbem. But, it's just a way of showing disapproval.
  • Chris West BTW it is only tracey anymore.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Depopulated toxic dialougue dominated permanently preserved, group open and viewable to all!
  • Nan Di Giovanni well, now it really is the Tracey Show.
  • Nan Di Giovanni so, that leaves no doubt on who is doing the deleting.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Can we start an infiltrator troll hall of fame room from that page? Alan Villegas could battle Johnny Pappas with Bert Simpson as referee!
  • Josephine Piarulli When I was admin, I remember a time where Tracey was trying to get me to nuke the page, saying she wouldn't blame me if I did, etc. when I told her I wouldn't, soon thereafter began to campaign to not have me be admin. also when Raul was admin, he was telling me how he was getting messages from "anon" to nuke the page and he was pretty freaked out. The objective was to take down that page for a very long time. Mission accomplished.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Interesting....l I remember the supposed anon threats to nuke the page. I think they prolly had better things to do. Mentioned it on one of their pages.
  • Josephine Piarulli Of course it wasnt anon. Just someone trying to get Raul to do their dirty work by scaring him to take down the page.
  • Nan Di Giovanni yep, it's been a year now.
  • Barb Dunsmore Only Tracey Chris? She signed that statement KS as well. Guess it's possible she would do that without Kathy's approval but unlikely.
  • Cristie Paris Tracy, Kathy, and her supporters are not welcome in this group. Its a private group and her malicous destruction of community property will not be brushed under the rug. Please move forward with creating your own group bc we are searching for like minded individuals not people to destroy our media assets. Anyone second that?
  • Cristie Paris No one has the trademark on osd but we wont be forced to work with the opposition no more.
  • Donna Piranha Since everyone keeps referring to the situation in the past tense, i hope you know that this shit is far from over ... she/they/it is just getting started. i m not being mean. i am trying to make sure everyone knows what we're up against ... pissed off exposed agents paid to crush us. She nuked the page and i hope many people made screenshots or kept those last conversations documented. They may appear "changed" ... remember her husbands line of work somehow involves creating realistic looking forged documents. i predict another attempt at character assassination of me ... because i would not let them get away with it the first time.This is not just Tracey & Kathy, and anyone who thinks we don't have a whole team of pretend friends is just not well informed about COINTELPTO and how they operate. THIS IS NOT A TEST. We are not out of the storm yet. i know the main offender here is seething mad and i keep seeing a picture of the Red Queen yelling, "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!" which pretty much happened yesterday. No .., if she doesn't have enough sense to crawl under a rock but rather posts something about an official statement, you know it's gonna be a doozie. No one listened to me before & while the character assassination was going on by James & Tammy, she was just waiting to use that as an excuse. i want REAL digital copies of the page available in their entirety Immediately, before her husband changes something to make it look real. We need to ask FB how to get legitaimate copies right from then. This i think is very important. Please think about it ...
  • Josephine Piarulli I will not be surprised if her supporters continue to unwittingly do her bidding
  • Cristie Paris Well they can do it somewhere else.
  • Donna Piranha ^^^ DUH ...i can't believe there are people here who don't realize this has been set up since before our first meeting, just like it was in every other city. i realize that the shock of this reality is the equivalent of adults finding out that Santa Claus DOES exist .., but he's an evil fucker who just eats your cookies.
  • Cristie Paris If u dont understand that then your job must depend on you not understanding. Understand?
  • Donna Piranha ^ i did not get that at all Cristie ... what?
  • Cristie Paris Im saying if people dont understand that nuking the page is not something thats going to be forgiven then maybe its bc their job depends on them not understanding.
  • Cristie Paris Just a thought.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green If you don't see the DRAMATIC IRONY here...I don't need you. . Christie: kick me off. After these "messages" we'll be right back.
  • Cristie Paris Thats the great thing about autonomy you work with whom you feel comfortable.`You are cheerleading the page being zapped so why are you here?
  • Donna Piranha Everyone here has witnessed the constant gossiping and slander, the control, the intimidation. The LAST thing agents want is exposure because it forces them to have to restablish trust, or go elsewhere after all their "work." i exposed them, so they're coming after me. The article says that they will turn everything around to make it seem like they are the victims, and turn their venom fully on the person(s) who exposed them. Just remember these words. Hex i am not trying to be dramatic, i am a 54-year old dissbled person who is exhausted. Until my last breath i wi speak the truth even if my voice shakes. i don't like it at ALL that this is the situation, but it is. If you want to attack me more go ahead. i am only trying to prepare this group for what's coming. Calling out the bullshit on the other page is what led to them being so frustrated that they took down our whole page. That is not even rational. i am trying to be realistic, not dramatic. Please don't twist my intentions, too.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I'm wondering what Todd's view on this is at this point.
  • Cristie Paris They chose to make themselves phariahs by deleting 3400 members off of our page. Question: Do we have any legal recourse here at all?
  • Donna Piranha Todd is very fair, but again, this is such confusing shit, that's why i m trying to make sure everyone at least takes the time to read about the tactics of agents ... so many dramas in OSD wpuld be better explained if everyone would stop arguing and just read the facts.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Hex seems to be morally superior though. His opinion trumps all!
  • Donna Piranha An opinion is not a fact.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I was using non-dramatic irony.
  • Donna Piranha i am not trying to convince anyone of anything. i am just asking people to become informed as to the trchniques and methods employed against us. i had also posted this right before getting shut down:

    http://www.genuinewitty.com/2012/10/15/my-experience-being-bullied-at-occupy-vancouver-toronto/

    My Experience Being Cyber-Bullied (and real-life) At Occupy Vancouver & Toronto... www.genuinewitty.com

    Initially, I wasn't going to discuss the Amanda Todd story. With all of the atta...

  • Cristie Paris i Havnt banned u hex and i wont as long as you don't attack me even if we disagree im not banning. I'm asking you to create a new group and migrate there if your going to continue insisting this is just a squabble with the admins that nuked the page b/c thats just not palatable.
  • Donna Piranha The admins weren't even in the fray, at the time. How could this be a squabble with them. The truth is that i was countering the attacks on me with facts straight from the infiltrator's handbook that exposed the methods of their intricate deception. There was no where to hide. They deleted those posts first, before banning us three and then no one could see any of the conversation that had led to the implosion.
  • David Jacob Uuuh Thomas Lee Schneider what made you think I wanted to nuke it? Was it the poem that I posted on there?
  • Donna Piranha To mimimize what happened as a "cat fight," at this pont is just ridiculous. If it was, the unmembering would have stopped at three. It did not. Please just THINK about this. The 1% are losing this battle, slowly, all over the world. They wanted us gone completely before our first year was up, as we learned. We were NOT gone, and they are losing this fight and also the former secrecy in which they formerly used to operate. We are exposing the lies and the world is waking up. We have picked a battle with the richest, most powerful people on the planet. Make no mistake ... they will stop at nothing to try to crush us. i don't know which part of this is so hard to understand, since we have all known this since we started Occupy! It is WHY we Occupy ... am i wrong? Is anyone doubting that they have the resources of the most powerful country on earth with which to attack dissidents? Did people really come hear for the drumming anf the refreshments? Please .. put down the Kook-Aid!!! ok, sorry, i admit that last part was dramatic, but i just want you all to have a fighting chance here ...
  • Cristie Paris dam skippy time to move on.
  • Donna Piranha And i'm not trying to scare anyone!
  • Donna Piranha if i was, i'd post the vdeo i watched the other day that scared the bejeezes out of me. i don't even know what bejeezes are, but my point is that the 1% were not "ready" for this global explosion of consciousness. Their jig is up, and they are not happy about it. They are scrambling ... artificially inflated stock market, possible false flag attacks, and since Occupy started, how many Constitutional amendments have we lost? i believe it's THREE - 1, almost 2, and 5? more? less?
  • Chris West Sadly, we live in a country of shallow minded people who get their news from Fox News or psuedo-liberal MSNBC. How' bout that game last night? Hey did you hear the latest on (insert celebrity name hete). Hey what's on TV tonight? And so it goes. The 1% take full advantage of this mentality.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green After these messages, we'll be right back
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I've got nothing else to say; no one's listening. Enjoy the show
  • Chris Mckay At least we learned Tracy and Kathy were exactly what I warned people of almost a year ago, I hope we learn from this and move forward in a positive way. Much love to all of the real activist in San Diego
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Here's the answer I got from Tracey: "Group isn't being nuked but rather it will be preserved so that no more information will be deleted by the authors of posts. I acted with another admin, who was accidentally deleted during the depopulation, and they will be re-adding themselves next week (they have no computer access this weekend). Also the temporary bans that were instituted the previous day were aproved by all three admins. A statement will be issued on the website within the next week. We will also attempt to restore the thread deleted by it's author with 400 plus comments. There is a dedicated comment notification account that preserves every comment and thread, even after the authors of the posts delete their words.
    I am already the devil in many peoples minds, an easy moving target they get obsessed with while the wolf walks right behind them. I have no illusion that the truth will disabuse them of that notion. For a group that preaches another world is possible, they became rather entrenched in cliquish tribalism; for a group of critical thinkers - so quick to be manipulated into a lather and lynch imagined boogeymen and boogeywomen. Maybe without a forum where they feel license to slander and libel people, they'll figure out how to really talk to each other, work together and be the change they preach.
    We only had 50 unique viewers/posters per month on average anyway. Oh! how the twitterazzi must be gnashing teeth and ripping bodices, thinking they lost an audience of 2500 when in reality 98% stopped paying attention a long time ago. The carnage had to stop. Let people decentralize. Fighting to the death over the illusion of a crumb has our opposition only laughing at us."
  • Chris West Was the OSD group community property, or did it actually belong to only three and then two then one remaining admin(s) of the 3000 plus members. Sounds like the 0.1% to me. What am I missing here. Is this what OSD has devolved to? IMHO this resource belonged to each and every member of that group. Are we trying to build community and trust here or tear it down?
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Rebuild is where we're at now, imo.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider And of course, the work of composing and staging a Rock Opera based upon the page.
  • Nan Di Giovanni lol Tracey , "while the wolf walks right behind them". I'm cracking up... good one. Girl, you got yourself some serious ego problems.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Hopefully, no one sees her as "the devil". Justin Bieber is the devil, after all.
  • Ray Lutz I documented this action on the wiki bc stuff is way too transient on FB. http://www.copswiki.org/Occupy/OccupySanDiegoFacebookGroupNuked
  • Donna Piranha Why do we have to wait another were for some statement? Wasn't it "a couple days" a couple days ago? Why wasn't the page left up intact in the first place for full transparency? If comments that were deleted are permanently archived, why do we have to go thru this ridiculously convoluted hierarchy? Why was my post illustrating the psy-ops techniques being used against deleted right before the dismembering? Why can't we all see the archive NOW? Why can't she tell us NOW? Another week of this?! THIS IS PSY OPS ... READ about it people!

    Remember, i got on there to DEFEND Cristie. Then i was attacked and had to defend myself. If this was a simple matter of "name calling" why weren't we put on notice? Why wasn't this dealt with in the same manner as every other "name caller"? Why do we have to wait another week for the prosecution to present their case? Do we still have an Accountability Committee? Aren't they the ones who are supposed to deal with this? Who made the Admins of the OSD Group page the authorities in charge of this type of unprecedented procedure? Why isn't there transparency in the first place?!

    Here's what i think: They need a lot of time to put together a prosecution. BECAUSE i was posting links describing IN EXACT DETAIL the tactics that were being used against us, whoever is involved in this must put extra effort into trying to assemble something that fools the group into thinking they are justified in doing this. Why can't we see the evidence now? Why can't we have an "official" statement NOW? There is no reason for it ... oh, wait ... yes there is ... this is exactly tbe kind of psychological torture that drove Aaron Swartz to commit suicide. It is most definitely bullying. Aaron Swartz saw no way out if the carefully crafted prosecution against him. He was a WHISTLEBLOWER. And we all know what happens to whistle blowers in this administration.

    i am a whistleblower.
    i am Aaron Swartz.
    i am Julian Assange.
    i am Bradley Manning.

    And now, apparently, i have to sit in my cell for another week to find out my sentence. This is outrageous. This group needs to demand transparency NOW, before the psy ops team has time to assemble what will most certainly be an attempt at the final death throw of OSD. Remember that all this arose from the "threat" that we were uniting to RE-OCCUPY. They do not want us united. After so long. thought they had us "under control." Then we decide to UNITE. Do you remember how difficult it was to even get everyone together just to meet? They keep us distracted, in-fighting, and now, in the dark. What will follow is a crucifixion, and it will be me. i ask anyone with any evidence to prove these things to come forward now. PLEASE.
  • Chris West The statement from Tracey carries no validity nor should anyone be gullible enough to take her word for it that there are on average only about 50 unique visitors per month. Oh, anyone remember the Nixon tapes? Same will happen here, from one who Occupy San Diego and its media committee entrusted with the duties of moderator for the group. Tracey volunteered, no one forced her into taking on the admin duties.

    This person had no credibility and I would question any statement that she chooses to make. She has irreparably broken the trust of many innocent bystanders by this action.

    Every week I noticed that there were a few new members, a sign that there was till a lot of interest in the page. Oh, BTW others were kind enough to volunteer for the dirty work of being moderator/admin. We should be thanking them for being willing to take on the thankless job and relieving Tracey and/or Kathy for their duties. This could have turned out so much better.

    More importantly, it still can. The group still exists and people can come back on. We already have volunteers ready to go, why not take advantage of their generous offer. Crazy not to, IMHO.
  • Josephine Piarulli I agree with Donna and Chris last comments. They have stated my sentiments. Thank you.
  • Chris West Thanks Ray Lutz for archiving the info. I would not trust the remaining admin to leave it intact. I would not trust her to do anything that might make her look bad as a sacrifice for the common good. You've shown your true colors, Tracey, and I thought you were so much better than this. What an incredible disappointment you have been to a group I as still proud as hell consider myself a part of, Occupy San Diego!
  • Chris Mckay So if you are going to rebuild the page you should seriously think about how to make it so their is accountability on people that post lies or attack other activist on the site without a ban, just went through this in Seattle a few months ago, might want to talk to some people up there about their solitons. Just a suggestion
  • Chris West Chris Mckay it is almost impossible to stop that, but it became obvious that K and T were in way over their heads and unqualified to moderate the group effectively. Look at the result. This would have turned out much better with people who were qualified to do the job and had the integrity to do it fairly and well. Again, it still can.
  • Donna Piranha This same tactic has been used at Occupy Arcata & many many other Occupy groups around the world. Divide and conquer. i would urge everyone to do some homework and ask around. This is a planned, concerted effort to kill Occupy. It will not succeed. We are still united, even though we are under attack. It's time for everyone to stand strong and not be fooled into accepting the sacrifice of innocent civilians. This is not justified, and just like the government tries (& mostly succeeds) in clouding the perceptions of the general public with false flag operations that sermingly justify their actions, the same will probably happen here. i know this group is smart enough to see through this. If not, read the first chapter of "Animal Farm" ... it should turn on some light bulbs.

    They have forced me on the defensive, another tactic. i am going to choose to ignore any further attempted "Character Assassination" by getting back
    to working on Social & Economic Justice. i m sure someone can let me know when i need to show up for my crucifixion.
  • Ray Lutz FACEBOOK SUCKS! There is no way to allow someone to be an admin without also allowing them full deletion rights! Old-school bulletin board systems were MUCH BETTER with administration rights. You could allow people to just read, post, edit, delete posts, add threads, delete threads, delete categories, etc. and any combination of those rights. But here on piece of crap FB, they have no concept of levels of permissions, as that would be "too complicated for facebook users". I hope Facebook filters messages and looks for comments about their tool because it seems the only way to make comments here.
  • Kali Katt on the pages you can make people content creators and they can not do this - not sure about the groups
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Yeah a lot of the problem is in the structure of social media. "The medium is the massage."
  • Chris Mckay Chris West, key word "almost" which means it is possible with intelligent thought, respect, tolerance for dissent and diligence love you and miss you had great time at Phil Lesh's BDay party last night
  • Ray Lutz One partial fix is to make it so an admin can't be unadmined by another admin, only by self. That would eliminate the dangerous situation we just went through.
  • Chris Mckay See intelligent thought has already begun, thanks Ray Lutz
  • Donna Piranha Ray can you please document this with Facebook? And in the account that you posted, i believe that that page was NOT the original page of 13,000 that got nuked over a year ago .., (hmmm ... SAME thing happened then .., it must be "cat fighting"!)
  • Cristie Paris The truth of the matter is they thought they could get rid of us ladies of media (Kali Katt Donna and I ) by banning us from the group and it backfired on them and they couldn't contain the response from the larger group. OSD got exposure on CSPAN this week when Donna and I mentioned occupySD on TV probably enraged the powers that be. Then with the Coastal Commission voting no unanimously and it being livestreamed and global rev live carried the livestream so it got global exposure. Also Donna relayed the story about the coastal commissioner telling the Navy that the ocean is already OCCUPIED and its not the Navys personal theater. <Fucking awesome moment>Then I posted that the community pages had over 30 thousand views this last week and they went into a complete tailspin meltdown. It was more than they could take. They thought destroying our GA would be the end of OSD .Tracey also knew she was exposed so she did what shes been trying to do> She'd been begging and pressuring our GA to nuke the group for a very long time. It was so obvious what was going on but I think some became dependent on her for support so she could easily sway them or manipulate them into doing her bidding. Either way its almost worth losing the group if it gets rid of a parasite. I do not want this to be the official group. Please make plans to make a new one bc I don't want all the pressure on me. Thanks all! Also we already have decentralization its why we make sure there are different admins on every page! Its also the reason the damage was contained and they were only able to nuke one group and not the rest of the pages so we are very lucky in that respect. All power to the peeps!
  • Cristie Paris The more effective we are the higher they turn the heat up on us.
  • Ray Lutz That's exactly right. I figure anyone left as an admin after all the dust settled could be easily correctly tagged as an infiltrator.

    I am trying to get this brought up with Facebook but they are not that cooperative, in general, and I can't blame them with a bazillion users.
  • Cristie Paris U talking about Alan or what do u mean Ray?
  • Donna Piranha Has anyone seen what The Ministry of Truth has now done to the old group page?! i went to look at all the comments and i'm like "who ARE these people?" and then i see that the posts are from like, early 2012! They have erased and changed history just like in the first chapter of 1984. ANYONE who has not alteady read 1984 should spend this week reading it while we are waiting for rhe "official" rewrite of history that is coming. This book, Animal Farm are considered BANNED books for a reason: they speak truth and serve to educate the public. Now i am also banned from speaking the truth. This is again, not being "dramatic" ... this is real
    life. This is happening. They are trying to rewrite history. PLEASE someone get screen shots of that page right now. Please document this. At the moment i am mobile and cannot.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Hahahahahahhahahahahahahaha....right or wrong, it was deserved. Not the fault of some separate external agent or whatever. It's OUR fault. By OUR, I included myself...to illustrate for you how easy it is to admit it. YOUR turn
  • Donna Piranha Your right Hex, it is my fault. i should never have come back to OSD. i feel like i helped to make all of you a target. but i won't let Occupy die. of that, i am fully guilty.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green In one heirarchy, you have some people trusted by GA with the responsibility shutting down a page. In the other, you have an opportunist who admins all the rest, lancing the other for being heirarchical. In the middle lies all of us, just eating it up like popcorn & sour patches.
  • Josephine Piarulli It's our fault b/c we use FBas a tool to discuss ideas and plan. We may have disagreements, but that does not mean you throw out the baby with the bath water. No. This was planned and long in coming. I frankly am surprised it took her this long.
  • Cristie Paris The attacks on media are relentless and we know this by now.
  • Donna Piranha Why are you laughing Hex? i m crying over here. Are you heartless? Think real life bullying is a joke? i can't believe that anyone would be laughing about my suffering right now ... i was just subjected to another round of Character Assassination and you keep saying its drama. i don't know why you would be so hurtful. they know this makes me suffer .., if you are condoning that and perpetuating it, then i guess i didn't know you very well. Please stop minimizing this situation. This is severe adult bullying. Stop bullying me too. i have a right to say anything but Hate Speech, which i would never do. i don't hate anyone. i really do love everyone, and i have hope for everyone, even those who have now drawn the battle lines and are taking places as my enemies. i wish this wasn't happening. it makes me very, very sad. i m sure my enemies are having lots of laughs at my suffering. who the fuck laughs at suffering?

    By the way, if anything happens to me:

    "Remember these words, when i have died: i lived, i breathed, i OCCUPY'd."
  • Ray Lutz BrotherHexagon The Green, I don't understand how you logically conclude that nuking the forum does anything except to eliminate the history. To say it was "deserved" etc. is meaningless. It's as if you have a dispute with your neighbor and you decide to stomp on his mailbox, as if that is going to stop him from sending any mail.
  • Cristie Paris Donna your not alone they have been slandering me all over. Carlos is still doing it in other groups. Im sure they will try to discredit us all somehow but we are awake and we all call bullshit...
  • Donna Piranha ^ please remember to make all the "i"s lower case. i am not an elitist that needs a capital "i"

    If anyone using capital "I"s is offended by me calling them an elitist, please don't take it personally. i never capitalize my i's and that is my reason for it.
  • Cristie Paris He was on the community pages telling people I was lying that the group wasnt being deleted its like really?
  • BrotherHexagon The Green I'm not laughing at your suffering, Donna. I'm sorry if you feel that way. I'm laughing at the irony that we all got on a page EVERYONE KNOWS is being tracked by the feds...and blamed the " infiltration on each other
  • Donna Piranha ^ btw, the above is analogous to
    what happened on the other page. People took personally the generalized comments about how the conversation was straight out of the Infiltrator's Manual. Tammy Martin & James Bartoli led the character assassination against me. While i NEVER directly called anyone an infiltrator, after i was banned James accused me of "directly" calling him an infiltrator. i sent him this text:

    "James i would like you to let me know how i "directly insulted you"? i don't insult people, so i am
    baffled by this comment. Thank-you."

    He replied: "if you can't acknwldg you painted me as an 'infiltrator' in the past cpl days, there's no hope for any understanding. i abhor dbl standards & am done w/ this bs"

    and

    "& it was wrong (& i told admins so) to remove you three even if i personally resent being attacked as an 'infiltrator' for calling out cristie's hypocrisy."

    i replied: "The Double Speak doesn't work on me, James. You wrote to OSD that i "directly" attacked you. That is a lie. i detailed specific infiltration techniques; if you chose to associate yourself with them, perhaps self-reflexion is in order. Now you say i "painted" a picture of you ... which is it? First you said i "directly" called you an infiltrator, now you INFER that i "painted" a picture of you as an infiltrator. You purposely disinformed the group. i studied Logic. Again, this doesn't work on me. In your smugness, you have let your ego cloud your judgement. This is not going to work in your favor."

    This is provided in the interest of transparency. If you don't like the truth, phuck you. i have a right to defend myself and i can look for help wherever i find allies that can see thru this psy-ops bullshit and be brave enough to stand with me.
  • Josephine Piarulli Thank you for sharing that, Donna. It helps us understand a little better what transpired. I never saw you directly call someone an infiltrator. In fact, people have been restrained in calling anyone out. Though after nuking the page, Tracey is looking pretty good.
  • Cristie Paris Trolls travel in groups. James was witchhunting me and kali called James and Tami out saying how obvious they were being lol.
  • Donna Piranha i missed a couple in the beginning after my first question:
    J: "i do not want a txt discus pls but will respond: calling me an infiltrator is a direct insult. you should not have removed & i have told admins i thought so"

    and

    "We have to learn to stand together or we will certainly fall apart"

    my reply: "i never called you an infiltrator, but you have targetted me & my comments & tried to discredit me, repeatedly. i don't stand with those who are attacking Occupiers. You don't fool me. i have forwarded the "Character Assassination" post to a Professor Emeritus of Logic for a full analysis to illuminate your modus operandi to the group. If you are indeed not an infiltrator, you most certainly are a saboteur. You have tried repeatedly to sabotage me & my good & noble efforts. You will not succeed. Expect me to defend myself and this movement. That's all i have to say for now. "

    then it goes back to the second text i posted above.

    i am transparent. they won't let you see the truth until they change it. 1984
  • Josephine Piarulli Thank you Donna. I have the uptmost respect for you. You, Kali and Cristie are very courageous and dedicated. Much respect.
  • Donna Piranha ^ all that happened AFTER i was banned and saw James claiming i "directly" attacked him. i did not. Kathy then kept repeating that "all three" "directly" insulted people. i never did. i referred only to tactics that are used and how the method of the Character Assassination is implemented. They did NOT wany anyone having those facts, that truth, so in a fit of unstoppable rage, three if us were unmembered in sn unprecedently move. When the OSD community reacted with shock and demanded accountability, they ERASED the evidence, started unmembering EVERYONE, and now have turned back time on the page, reverting to an earlier time, when they were not exposed. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH DOES IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF 1984!!!
  • Josephine Piarulli Can't deny any of that. It happened. We saw it. That is exactly what they did and what transpired. We know it.
  • Donna Piranha The next step is to publicly ruin people that oppose them. i think they will come after me. They will try to make this hit against me as big as possible. Notice how Cristie states that Carlos is already off bad-mouthing her in other forums.

    i am stating FACTS. Not making judgements. i have stated repeatedly that OSD is most likely 50% inftrated; this is a national statistic, not one i made up. Do the math. And yes, Hex, i was fully aware of what we are up against. That doesn't mean i m gonna run away with my tail between my legs. i came here to fight injustice. i came here to fight corruption. i am still doing that.
  • Josephine Piarulli They won't just come after you. They will come after all who are against them. People need to stick together.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider "In one heirarchy, you have some people trusted by GA with the responsibility shutting down a page. In the other, you have an opportunist who admins all the rest, lancing the other for being heirarchical." ummmm..... What mythology is this based on Hex?
  • Cristie Paris I created this group a very long time go ahead and scroll you will be scrolling for a very long time. Its been a peaceful group and I want to keep it that way. Anyone that wants to be an admin has a chance to contribute.
  • Kali Katt an OPPPORTUNIST!!!! WHAt the FUCK BrotherHexagon The Green!!!!!! Stop calling media opportunists ... it may be hard for others, and apparently YOU to believe that people like christi and myself actually give a shit about getting info to the masses, and are not doing it for self serving purposes. Do you realize that myself, and cristie, could go get paid for what we do and work for the MSM, but we DONT because we give a shit, and sacrifice our time to freelance for FREE for the activist community, and we get called opportunists! I know YOU did not call ME an opportunist, but Tracey did numerous times so seeing you call crisitie one now is fucking tripping me out
  • Cristie Paris https://www.facebook.com/SanDiegoOccupy theres 6 admins on this page I dont run anything alone.

    Occupy San Diego

    Since October 7, 2011 we are occupying San Diego indefinitely to stand in solida...

    Page: 1,421 like this

  • Kali Katt cirsite i will take on the admin role with you on this page if you wish. that was the SECOND group page that got deleted that i started. there wont be a THIRD deleted
  • Donna Piranha In Animal Farm, "All Animals are Equal" was rewritten secretly and changed to:

    ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
    BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

    This is a metaphor for the 99%.

    While on one trip to OWS, i saw this ad for a financial institution above a subway stop:

    "We're not for everyone. Just the 1% that matters."

    Same thing.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Also wondering about the "people trusted by GA with the responsibility shutting down a page"? What GA was this?
  • Cristie Paris Please start another group and leave this one out of it.
  • Kali Katt Thomas Lee Schneider he is referring ot the people who were meeting at childrens park after leaving hte civic center when they couldnt get the john kinney proposal passed
  • Cristie Paris Hex its not about me im not the one that deleted the page.
  • Cristie Paris There was no GA that people agreed to take the page down thats total bullshit.
  • Cristie Paris We havn't had GA with quorom in a very long time.
  • Josephine Piarulli They did make sure to have a GA to elect Tracey as an admin. But I guess to nuke a main OSD FB page, nah. No need for GA.
  • Donna Piranha This is exactly why we fought for transparency with the Livestream, so we could have an accurate record of the truth in case later on someone tried to twist everything around. They count us us not remembering, just like in Animal Farm. Then they post lies and say its truth and that it's always been that way.
  • Josephine Piarulli I was a supporter of LS. You are right, Donna. They stopped the LS, then the notes, then the GA, now the OSD FB page. They can say whatever they want. But many of us know the truth.
  • Donna Piranha This was all by design.
  • Cristie Paris Ga doesn't make people admins media committee does and im wondering why no one questioned why the food committee people had a sudden interest in media. Especially right after bullying the livestreamer out of GA. I would really like to know the circumstances surrounding who added those 2 to the page.
  • Josephine Piarulli Tracey managed to fool a lot of people and gain trust. So much so that they gladly gave her admin duties.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I can only share the protocol we would have taken in Encinitas. First of all, we have a Peacekeepers committee. It would have required a meeting of that committee, and a majority vote for any action. And, at that meeting, anyone is allowed to attend and speak. An action of this magnitude would always have to go through Peacekeepers. Ironically, Tracey is a committee member, and was part of this process. And she did a wrath on Sean Rowlands, when he did the same thing.
  • Nan Di Giovanni in short, she was part of making these procedures. Much of it was her own input. She brought up charges, in Peacekeepers, against Sean Rowlands who took over the first Occupy Encinitas page. Classic case of pot calling the kettle black.
  • Nan Di Giovanni and it would certainly be an agenda for a GA. That's a given.
  • BrotherHexagon The Green Irony that we all jumped on a page we all knew was federally tracked to plan actions...then went on to call each other the infiltrators. The real ones don't even need to do it now; we're doing it for them. Then complaining about. I was done with the group therapy stage of this movement long ago. Too busy to deal with it now. Got shit to do in real life. This isn't suffering. This is a facebook page. Be grateful there are no IDF bombs flying into your blocks like Gaza, that's suffering. I've got a plan. Other people have plans. If you do too, surprise me. We'll see what happens on the ground. Good luck.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Wtf cares if it was Federally tracked anyway? ^ Newspapers are federally tracked. Traffic is federally tracked. You don't seem to be done with the "group therapy" thing, btw. You're right about it just being a FB page though. Easy to start a new one - best to move on - etc etc. -
  • Thomas Lee Schneider It's interesting to review the opposition to reOccupying on that one thread.
  • Ray Lutz No matter where you go, you will be federally tracked. I'm already permanently on the radar after I worked to stop Blackwater.
  • Chris Mckay I love that all those that side with Tracy have been blocked, I can take from the response that it is the same people saying the same stuff they have been using for over a year. You think they would get new material by now
  • Chris West Again, it's clear that Tracey was in over her head and lacked the skills and integrity to perform her duties. I'd still like to see her open the old group back up and call a moderstor(s) to do the job she failed at. While there is some validity to het arguments, they are only her opinions. Earlier I posted some of what I wrote above in an open group
  • Chris West but was asked to bring it elsewhere, but I wanted her to read my comments. Yhe fact that one of the member's husband is a cop is irrelevant.
  • Chris West It's tuly sad that the one group that the most people of OSD used was raken down by someone who wasn't capable of seeing that it was no longer her time to admin the group and hand the job over to new willing volunteers.
  • John Kitchin Chris West, the two very bad viruses I received in my email came from your messages, which you may not have known.
  • Chris West can you describe the messages?
  • Cristie Paris Kind of blows the whole we dont have leaders argument out the water doesnt it? How long has Tracey been pulling all the strings? Why are some members still praising her after she took it upon herself to pillage our group page? Where is the accounting for of the money collected by the donation link they had up?
  • Chris West The real losers here are the large majority that made good use of the group via civil dialogue and information sharing. Only a small minority were throwing the mud. Moderators job is to give them warnings and time outs and bans if need be, but k and t were in over their heads and instead of doing the right thing and handing it over to someone who actually wanted to do that job they destroyed the group and punished the large majority of uninvolved members. Incompetence city here, folks. Could have and still can be so much better. Just put on another join request.
  • Chris West Alan has offered his services in the new group, at least until the dust settles down.
  • Cristie Paris This aint a new group and Alan was originally involved in banning Kali Katt, Donna and I in the other group so no services will be needed imo. Did he start a new group Chris bc this group is very old. I created it when I got banned for exposing Rick Halsey many moons ago. Tel ALan to use the CREATE Group button if he wants to admin a new group bc this one has never had any issues!
  • Josephine Piarulli Chris started a new group. I invited you to it.
  • Josephine Piarulli And Chris, at this point I believe it wasn't that Tracey couldn't handle the job of admin. I believe it was her intention to nuke it for a long time, as she attempted to get me to nuke the page when I was admin.
  • Cristie Paris Good leave this one alone please lol!
  • Josephine Piarulli And donna's post about infiltrators is true. They are now trying to make themselves a victim. Way to twist things around.
  • Cristie Paris Thats why its best to have multiple groups these days.
  • Michael Pazzo Just noting that this, same thing, has happened at Occupy LA and Occupy San Luis Obispo, within the last three months. Further, it happened in nearly the exactly the same way. It makes one wonder.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Hmmm. Interesting. ^
  • Josephine Piarulli Didn't it happen recently at OSF, too?
  • Cristie Paris We the people wont be manipulated from within.
  • Michael Pazzo Our mess at OSLO occurred after someone convinced one of our site managers that the other admins were mentally ill. This exact thing is happening now at OLA. The rouge admin went in and deleted all the other admins, one day. Luckily we presented a unified front and got the page back.
  • Josephine Piarulli Coordinated efforts, people. Anyone who supports these admins are brainwashed.
  • Cristie Paris make sure u specify which admins u talking about as I am one too lol just never on the big group I didnt want the drama. some people here may have no idea whats going on.
  • Michael Pazzo I uploaded the transcript of the trial, we gave the admin that rogue. If anyone wants to see it.
  • Josephine Piarulli No, Cristie. No one is accusing you. We are speaking of the admins that nuked the main OSD FB group, specifically Tracey and Kathy.
  • Cristie Paris Thanks I just like to make sure its clear with all the twisting of facts going on not everyone pays as close attention or may be new to the group.
  • Ray Lutz I was unadmined without any notice or reason by Carlos Huerta and then he turned it over to Tracey, the best I can figure. I have to admit I did not follow events very much on the page as I have been working hard on the San Onofre project, and on that project I could only get reluctant approval by OSD, so I was largely working with other activists who are much more cooperative and focused on getting a result -- a breath of fresh air. I was thinking just before the sequester went down that we have almost no one talking about this from any other point of view around here. With the UT even more of a tool for right wingers, there is almost no oxygen in the room.

    so when Kali posted with new energy, I joined in and we had quite a robust discussion going. So that would be counter to what the infiltrators wanted to see, any new energy. So Tracey was desperate to see it taken down, since that will disconnect the subscribers who may not join in the discussion but watch the posts.

    I do still have the email blast list which is about 900 peeps if we want to get a new forum -- or anything else going, and you will have to pardon me if I just don't turn that over because the only reason we still have it in tact is because I never did turn it over to anyone I did not have some trust in.
  • Cristie Paris Carlos also happens to be the one slandering me in other groups.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Removal of an admin, If that doesn't require a GA process, then what in hell does??
  • Josephine Piarulli That's right. Carlos is complaining of being banned in the OYC group.
  • Josephine Piarulli There was NO reason to remove Ray as admin.
  • Cristie Paris I know Carlos got away with that one. They have gotten away with alot of stuff but it stops now.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I think their got too big for their britches, thinking they didn't need a GA process anymore, their personal decisions were considered best for everyone, based on her "20 years of activism", always good to give expert advise and never following it herself.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I can remember Carlos volunteering to be an admin, and I liked the idea. He seemed cool - but it seemed like he became more and more argumentative after becoming an admin. My perspective only mind you.
  • Nan Di Giovanni getting back to the one man, one vote system.. isn't this a huge part of occupy? Fairness, where everyone has a voice?
  • Nan Di Giovanni I admit, I would complain on the site, as they didn't seem to be practicing what Occupy preaches.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Occupy... that was the problem, I kept reminding them it was the Occupy Movement, not their movement
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I'm wondering how Villegas got to be an admin - it was just a short time but he was an admin - A year ago maybe? Just wondering - not that important.
  • Cristie Paris Kathy is the only one who ever got violent in a GA 2. Remember shes the one who slapped John Kenney. They have been running people off for a very long time. If they want to talk about accountability bring it bc so far there has been none!
  • Josephine Piarulli Wasn't Kathy the one that slapped JBK?
  • Josephine Piarulli The JBK was quite a division of the group back then, as I recall.
  • Thomas Lee Schneider Hmmmm .....was the slapping warranted? lol
  • Nan Di Giovanni well, enough time has gone by for me. I am confident in the people I trust, totally confidate.
  • Leslie Miller OH its that Kathy?
  • Cristie Paris Also Tracey giving legal advice and telling members to take pleas was pretty weaksauce imo. With all the not guilties occupy is getting why would it be a good idea to plead guilty.
  • Leslie Miller Now can we PLEASE drop all this and get focused again?
  • Josephine Piarulli I did not know she was doing that.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Is fish still living with her, during his probation?
  • Thomas Lee Schneider I think David Jacob should compose a lyric poem about the JBK incident. It might help in my understanding.
  • Cristie Paris I owe John Kenney an apology. Now looking back i see he was witchunted bc he pulled off organizing that Interoccupy event successfully. Its all the same characters smearing me.
  • Nan Di Giovanni it was a great event.
  • Cristie Paris Granted he was annoying with his hunger strike but still he wasnt really doing anything wrong that they could prove. It was all hearsay.
  • Chris Mckay Yes Kathy was the one that used violence, except it was ok for her to do it. Funny when others were disrespected to the point of finally snapping they were criticized for their actions. Kathy was applauded at the GA, made me want to vomit.
  • Chris Mckay I also saw personally how Tracy manipulated people to turn them against people who did a lot for OSD
  • Josephine Piarulli I was shocked when I heard that happened. But there was no accountability for a long time by then.
  • Josephine Piarulli Yes, Tracey was saying things about Ray to me. She did try to turn people against others, many who were working hard for Occupy.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I am going to give you , once again, the story of Jay Polk. He was actually living at Tracey's house for some time. She was on vacation, when he "died". A memorial was planned, then a story came out that he was not dead. The the story turned that J...See More
  • Nan Di Giovanni He worked in the kitchen with her, when there was an encampment.
  • Nan Di Giovanni she always treated me as a febble minded old lady, who had to be told who were the "good guys" and the "bad guys". I just allowed her to talk, wheels turning all the while.
  • Leslie Miller ENOUGH OF THIS ALREADY!!!!! All you all are doing is shit talking! Nothing productive is coming of this, and if its going to continue then we might as well be in the same fucking group!!!
    How is almost 500 comments of bashing people "Being the Change" or enforcing that this group doesn't have the "same drama"?
  • Cristie Paris Not bashing just want to make sure everyone knows whats up.
  • Leslie Miller REALLY??? Cause thats what it seems like. Your all just bashing on each other. If you want people to know whats up, make a neutral post with info and pin it to the top... dont continue this thread.
  • Josephine Piarulli I don't think it's bashing, Leslie. It's bringing to the open information about what happened about who we were dealing with. Mainly exposing Tracey, it seems.
  • Barb Dunsmore hearsay except for video someone said they had of jbk filming outside their house, which gave me reason for cpncern but i voted against ousting him. all i ever saw was him hard at work on many projects. where are all those people now who voted him out?
  • Nan Di Giovanni sorry Leslie, I want everyone to know what I saw, and also want them to know I have no part in it. It's called Transperancy.
  • Cristie Paris Barb ~~~~~ everytime we asked to see the proof re: JBK they had none. Many of JBK's accusers are same ones defending Tracey today.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I'm not covering up something for Tracy, surely something she banked on me doing.
  • Chris Mckay I am not about trashing people's names or talking behind their backs anything I say here I would say to someone's face, this is just the truth finally coming out about a person that has major control issues, rage in her heart and contempt for anyone that gets praises from someone when she is not included.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I told this same story on the OSD page, in front of everyone, and was banned five minutes later.
  • Nan Di Giovanni it certainly wasn't behind anyone's back at all.
  • Nan Di Giovanni lol the magic of Facebook.
  • Nan Di Giovanni Facebook is like family, at times you don't know if you love it or hate it.
  • Leslie Miller Can I delete it since we already came to terms with it being gone?
  • Cristie Paris Please dont we have a right to know what happened.
  • Leslie Miller Im not, it was a joke. But if your so concerned about letting people know what happened, how about instead of making them read a 500 comment thread, you just put out a statement? Eh?
  • Nan Di Giovanni I would prefer it stay up, that's my vote. I prefer everyone knowing what I know, I prefer working within the realms of honesty and openness. At each have to remember, they are MY words- it's not gospel, judge and listen with your own mind.
  • Cristie Paris this way we get to hear all voices not just the few writing a statement.
  • Nan Di Giovanni I don't have a problem owning my own words.
  • Leslie Miller Nevermind. This is your guys show now, have fun.
  • Nan Di Giovanni my parents always disagreed on everything, I'd often ask them why were they always fighting. My dad would answer, "what fighting, we're just talking". I think the same thing applies here. We just suffered the entire page being taken down, so i kinda thinks this goes beyond talking for gossip sake - this was an entire take over. Why are you so willing to give up without a fight? Or, at the very least, some semblish of the truth. Why should anyone take this lying down? Everyone wants transparency until it starts working.... then it changes the name to gossip.
  • Josephine Piarulli Why delete it. The truth of who we are dealing with should be made known, don't you think?
  • Nan Di Giovanni After, if you are the very last one in the room, only able to delete yourself - it's a bit like a smoking gun. Maybe we should wait until she decides when everyone deserves a statement, when it is best for us in her eyes. Who gives her the right to decide what is our "best". And why a total ignore of the system in place, and turning her back on the entire GA process. What kind of a democracy is that? We'd have better luck with the Repulicans.
  • David Jacob Lets all gather around the campfire
    And talk shit.
    Every word feeds the fire
    And keeps us warm like a comedy central satire.
    For the love of god.
    Justice must be served I have been wronged.
    Lets talk shit until the morning comes and talk shit again.
    Until the polar ice caps melt
    And the pipeline bends
    Through our neighbourhoods and separates us from our friends
    The people idle no more, let's pay no attention.
    The only thing that deserves much mention.
    Are the people we don't like.
  • Cristie Paris Its only shit if its not true though. Thats the thing about the truth. Sometimes it takes awhile to put its shoes on.
  • Josephine Piarulli I vote no confidence when it comes to Tracey. She did more damage than JBK. And yes. He was very active in inter occupy. So now it makes sense why he qw
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Topic revision: r3 - 17 Mar 2013, RaymondLutz
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